Zeitgeist

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Turambar, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    A friend of mine pointed out this movie to me; Zeitgeist it's called.

    Now, some of you people have probably already seen this movie - or parts of it - before. It's an Internet-based movie on the current state of the world. Now, there are lots of those around in various qualities. But this one most definately stands out, compared to other work I have seen. It is especially well produced, reasoned out, together.

    The other thing is that it happens to cover most important debates I have seen on this site.



    A short warning is in place. This movie is one with an opinion and it will (try to) put it onto you. I don't especially like the fashion of the movie; the narrator is quite pissed off at points, the graphics are... violent and convulsion-inducing.

    However, some very powerfull stuff is claimed in this movie. And even if half of it is true, I would still recommend this movie to all people with an opinion. In fact, I would like as many people as possible to see it.

    The other thing is, and that brings us to this section of the Forum, debate. I think it is very important to try to seperate fact from fiction; accepting, rejecting, opinionizing. I think I will spend the forthcoming days (at least, the free hours) researching it - and coming back here. I am well in hope I am not the only one. But I am almost sure this will not be the case.

    Enjoy the ride.

    Go here for the full-length movie
     
  2. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Well okay... it took me some time to watch the movie, since it's not very short, rather very long.
    And then I had to think about it and I took notes.

    First of all:
    Do you think that this movie, especially the first part, should be shown to the public? I mean, freedom of mind and stuff, yeah I agree, but the first part causes erm... doubts for many people. And for some people their belief = hope, hope= life. I'm not saying that people would go off killing themselves after watching Zeitgeist, but for people with weak faith, this movie might have a really negative effect.

    PartI: It might be the truth and it might not. Religion isn't anything that is here for science to prove. Either you believe or you don't. I don't see why people feel threatened by religion and produce stuff like that. I'm rather atheist than christian, and more bhuddist than anything else, but my opinion to the first part is, that it's really disrespecting and simply harmful.

    PartII: Now here it gets a bit more complicated. Especially since I saw a report about that part of the movie some time ago. And the report refuted all relevant parts of the 9/11 thesis. Although it does not refute that 9/11 might be staged. Honestly, I don't know if 9/11 was staged or not, there are pros and cons. The consequences that followed weren't justified either way, so it only plays a role for the American citizen who wants an honest government. And since that's not me, I'd rather focus and the present, since I know and have live experienced how the American government is making their voters compliant.

    PartIII: Here it becomes interesting... I'm sure that money makes the world go around, and I'm sure that money has a huge influence. But I don't want to give up my faith into some politicians that still wanna do good for their nation.
    I know that America does not offer what it promises and I know that Americans don't know about that.
    I know that the government de-educates the people and I know that the American media is destroying more than all the terrorists on this planet.
    I know that you can't win a war against terrorism and I knew that before Afghanistan- and I was only 11 then.
    I know a lot and that's all I know. I can increase that knowledge or I can go dumb. But all that won't help me stop the people with the power. And it makes me desperate and I don't need telling from some little smartie who thought he'd figured it all out. Cause this film does not offer any solution, so thanks a bunch, zeitgeist.
    Maybe it at least helps some Americans, because it did not help me, which is a pity cause a movie like that has potential.
    It should be watched 90% critical, 6% curious and 4% open minded. It is as brain washing as the American mass media. It does not show any difference to it and offers no goal to work towards to. All it shows, is once again, how dumb we/ the Americans are, how we're to bling to see, how we're being fooled, how we don't think. And then it leaves us there with a bunch of bad feelings and nothing else. It's a pity, thismovie needs some work done.

    End of PartIII: The end is pure speculation. The future can't be predicted and humanity is too diverse and acts to not-logical to predict it. Even if there will be a north American Union: What's the difference? I mean the EU didn't bring too much bad to Europe and it's voluntary and makes a lot of things less complicated. And still all member states have their cultural differences and want to have it. It is very hard to get laws through the EU government because every nation has different interests and that's right and well this way.
    And actually I'm doubting that there will be an Asian Union. I can't see China and the surrounding countries get their acts together and gain a common denominator.

    It might be a wish of the powerful people in America to reign the world, but hey guys (just for the ones who haven't noticed yet) the world doesn't evolve around America and America is no eternal super power. It rises and falls like every single supremacy before it. And welcome to Aquarius- the new age.

    This is what I know: I know my name, I know my age, I know where I live, I know how to read, write, calculate and solve weird equations. I know how to ride a bike, how to jump and how to run. I know how to build simple machines and how to use complex ones. I know how to pay taxes and how different political systems work. I know a lot and I know how all those things are connected.

    Here is what I know: Grass is green and bumble bees aren't supposed to fly. The sky is blue and the mountains high. Sand doesn't burn and trees don't grow forever. I know that by taking out one part out of a biological system, you can destroy it.

    That's what is true: I'm alive, I will live and one day I'll die. And until then, I will decide how I will live.
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I agree there. By claiming the truth, they effectively practice what they preach against. Criticism is in place. Curiosity and openmindedness will lead us there by nature :)

    This movie does need some work, but apparently, that is the way to shake up the masses. For that, it goes with the zeitgeist of Michael Moore and Al Gore. I normally choose to ignore this sort of thing and concentrate on the story, wich seems to be compelling.

    I do agree, too, that the last part is pretty speculative. I would say that the whole thing is pretty anti-climactically. But, even ignoring that part, the whole story is offers counterweight to what Media are concentrating on at the moment. In a sense, it tries to rewrite the history of the past century or so - as well as Christianity. What I think is most important is that we need to concider what has been said and measure it against what we know - or what we believe we know.
     
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  4. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Yeah that's what the movie did to me. If I first very strongly believed in the evil of black kittens, for example, I know believe that black kittens are black. But I don't believe that their good either. So I'm neutral again and free to start making my own opinion again.
    So yeah, it offers a counterweight, but still uses the same methods as the stuff it's working against.
     
  5. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I stopped watching after 16.54 minuets - the obsession with december 25th is this taken further, does the film at a later point actually start to use some real data, or does it remain dependent upon total rubbish?
     
  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    yes it does. Only 30 minutes concern Christianity, Dec 25'th is only a minor point in the whole movie - though essential (to them) in showing how Jesus is Astrological.

    If you wish to do so, skip to minute 34 or so, where Christianity is exited.
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    But the data is totally erronious, christmas was moved, the date 25th december is not the original date - at which point the whole validity of their argument starts to fall. I am not saying that there is no truth in this, but it feels to me too much like they are preaching to me rather than informing me. Thus they themselves are lieing and modifying evidence to suit their needs. I will not say that I am a religous person, but I will say that I do not like this productions angle on things
     
  8. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    As others have said, Dec. 25th is not actually believed to be the birthday of Jesus. In fact I do not know one christian (in my group of friends anyway) that believe that he was actually born on dec. 25th. It was moved to "overshadow" "pagan" holidays. So their rant about Dec. 25th is pretty much meaningless. I mean there are some interesting things, but nothing that "shakes" my faith so far.
    At this point, ( I have yet to finish it ) it seems just like a rant from people who claim they know the "truth".
     
  9. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Yeah, you can basically skip the first 30 minutes of the movie, they are rubbish. The second part is just as unlikely too, but the third part should be watched. But remember the criticism. :D
     
  10. comfan

    comfan New Member

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    This movie to me just sounds like another take on the Illuminati conspiracy. Here is one of many sites that talk about it.http://www.illuminati-news.com/
     
  11. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Ahh, I remember from jumping through bits, seeing an eye symbol in part of the money section - the Illuminati rule all!
     
  12. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    turambar, my old adversary, well said. yes, i have seen this film before and sure, there may be fault to be found within, but as you have mentioned, the more important thing is, might it cause each of us to question this and that, so as to provide a catalyst for thinking and critical thinking even.

    i would assert 99% of the population is ignorant as to the issues which most affect them. neither aware of the systems of institutions or the interconnectedness among them and society. and that is a conservative number.

    religion. government. commerce. these institutions, with education and media, much as the film suggests, shape to a large degree the ideas of each and everyone of us and inevitably our reality.

    we as a society have learned to question the institution of religion. we as a society believe ourselves more enlightened for it. we do so fearing not our lives nor reputation ... but that newfound freedom is an illusion granted us, by yet, more institution.

    whereas before, in god we trust, today, it is in every other sort of machination we do - and we do so blindly. the responsibility that is our own individually, we defer to the state, the bank, the university or the television. if ever we find the courage to question the authority of these, our reputation is at risk.

    i thought the film touched on many a controversy worth discussing and documenting in greater detail. turambar, i am curious as to what your research has discovered? i am willing to have a serious debate and investigation, as the complexity of these institutional systems, interconnection and how they shape society is too great a matter to be ignored.
     
  13. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    I can't watch the movie on this computer, but I just wanted to say that this is the attitude that should be used to approach everything.
     
  14. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Well you're right, Just wanted to make sure that nobody goes and watches the movie and just believes everything that's being said...