why the new movie section?

Discussion in 'Questions' started by Cascador, Jul 2, 2007.

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  1. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    okay, I just saw it, the movie section, including a hobbit and lotr movie thread...Lord of the Rings has its own section so I'm just curious...why bother?
     
  2. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    It's an older section that was "deactivated"

    Hopefully people can start posting news about "The Hobbit" there.
     
  3. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    okay, so does that mean we can later have a clone wars animated and live star wars action series setion when the time comes?:D
     
  4. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    No, just because you want one. ;)

    Actually it's for major motion pictures. If it's a major motion picture and fits in the fantasy genre we can discuss it.
     
  5. Kenshin

    Kenshin Drifter

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    how bout eragon?
     
  6. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Who says only I want it?:D
     
  7. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Well if I say I don't want it...will that count Anakin?
     
  8. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    That is one person's opinion...so it does count, but does not mean it can't be created....
     
  9. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Well Sky did say...

    "If it's a major motion picture and fits in the fantasy genre"

    Is SW fantasy? I'm saying Sci-fi
     
  10. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    no it's fantasy, everything is based on mystical creatures, like dragons, myths, legends...star trek is sci-fiction....if you can't see the difference, then you got a problem lol

    And even if you say was true....why doesn't star trek has its own section?...It is very popular...I'll tell you why...because it's sci-fi...star wars isn't....
     
  11. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Star Wars has lasers, spaceships, interstellar travel, warp speed, highly advance technology...

    It's sci-fi <_<
     
  12. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    It's a modern fairytale, just because it has spaceships does not make it sci fiction. Does every fantasy have to resemble the middle ages or something? Star Wars has a view on both the past and the future, it has elements of dozen time periods, that's what makes it special. Star Wars also has sound in space which doesn't exist at all. It's the old hero's journey in a modern vision. Star Wars has magic swords (lightsabers), magic itself, (the Force). If you can't see besides the spaceships, lasers....then you don't understand the story....the story is a fairytale...that's all what you need to know to realise it's a fantasy set in space.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  13. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    It is generally accepted that Fantasy does revolve around swords, chainmail, dragons, and magic.

    Science Fiction is defined as a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.

    Sure fantasy in it's most literal term is anything your imagination conjures up, and if you want to go with that, then fine.

    Yet I believe it's generally been accepted that Fantasy is "Ye olde days" style, and Sci-fi is with robots and what not.

    Also....sound does actually exist in space...we just can't hear it. Sound is a disturbance of mechanical energy that propagates through matter as a wave. There is matter in Space, and therefore sound from things moving around and so forth.

    Edit: Alas it doesn't matter to me since I think that since the animated series and live actions are not major motion pictures, it easily falls under the already existing SW forum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  14. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    fan·ta·sy /ˈfæntəsi, -zi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fan-tuh-see, -zee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -sies, verb, -sied, -sy·ing.
    –noun 1. imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained.
    2. the forming of mental images, esp. wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
    3. a mental image, esp. when unreal or fantastic; vision: a nightmare fantasy.
    4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
    5. a hallucination.
    6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion: dreams of Utopias and similar fantasies.
    7. caprice; whim.
    8. an ingenious or fanciful thought, design, or invention.
    9. Also, fantasia. Literature. an imaginative or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters: The stories of Poe are fantasies of horror.
    10. Music. fantasia (def. 1).

    Nothing here says it's ancient...I don't see anything that specify that it has to be a medival form...fantasy means 'fantastical'. Things that our imagination can create that doesn't exist in reality. George Lucas always called star wars a space fantasy, no science fiction. As I said you can call star trek science fiction, because the majority of what happens in it is based on technology and it is set in the future. With star wars its story could be translated easily into a medival form instead of crossing the galaxy, crossing countries, instead of the Force, you have magic, instead of lightsabers you have swords. The Science isn't essential to the story. The story is about one man who falls from grace and is redeemed by his children.

    Like I said the plot could be set easily in other timelines and it is set in the past, tell me if you can explain in science how the Force (which plays a huge part in the story) works and I'll agree with you ;). The point is, it's just to be merely magic. Just it has another name...

    Lord of the Rings also has its own section...It's still in the movie section...you're point being?
     
  15. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    The Force could be some form of energy manipulation that is capable through evolution of certain cells being capable of consciously converting energy form. Our current scientific knowledge is too base to explain this, not to mention I don't even hold a PhD in energetics.

    Note...I said generally excepted....not on how it is specifically defined.
     
  16. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    you could come up with scientific attempts like this at magic...I think this is a poor answer...It's widely known that star wars is space fantasy and not just science fiction, the story does not revolve around the science of it...people are just naieve that because it "looks" like it's set in the future...it must be science fiction and science fiction alone.
    And yeah you also took the rest I said for granted...
     
  17. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    I took the rest of granted because it was irrelevant, because it doesn't matter what you subsituted for, it isn't the same thing.

    A lot of the SW stuff in scientifically driven; light sabers, robots, travel, guns. Whilst it is true that SW does not revolve around it's science (more of a drama type thing actually), it doesn't really stop it being science fiction.

    I never took it as people seeing Star Wars as space fantasy. I reckon if you were to go around taking a poll asking what genre they thought SW fell in, Sci-fi would top Fantasy.

    Although I can see it being Sci-fi aswell as Fantasy, I'd say it leans more towards Sci-fi.

    Alas, irrelevant of all of this, the animation or live action doesn't fit the key word of "major motion picture" and hence a SW version is not really necessary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
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  18. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. Science Fiction is based on science alone, something like 2001/ A Space Odyssey, you can't remake that story any other way. The story is about Artificial Intelligent life, that's the purpose of the story. With SW, the purpose has nothing to do with the science in it. Like I said, multiple times, you can place SW in any time line.

    You brought up lightsaber, robots, travel, guns etc. Those are merely tools, they do not 'make' the story. George Lucas originally wanted WIllow to be a Star Wars prequel, showing how the first beings found 'The Force' and learned to master it, that's what the magic is in those films, but in the end he decided against it. Would that have been science fiction also in your eyes? The story of Anakin Skywalker IS Star Wars, when he dies, the story dies with it. We're talking just about the movies here, George Lucas' Star Wars, not the EU stuff. But the things you mentioned can all be incorporated into another timeline (as I already clearly said):

    Lightsaber - Swords
    Droids - (They are merely there for comical purposes so could easily be replaced by humerous characters)
    Travel - Instead of travelling across the stars, instead across countries (already said but wasn't read I think)
    Guns - Again these are just weapons, they do not shape the stories, these could be replaced with bow and arrows, spears etc. It doesn't matter

    The point is, a science fiction story is driven by the science within it, Star Wars is not. It was created in the structure of "The Hero's Journey" which is a common structure used in fantasy and fairy tales. A young boy from a barren land discovers he is destined to become great and save the world, or in this case the galaxy. Many fantasy stories fit to that structure, including LOTRs.

    But people are easily confused what science fiction means. Just because it is futurastic in design, does not mean it is science fiction persé. At the end of the day, if George Lucas, critics etc claim it as Space Fantasy, you are not one to argue with that. You simply have a narrow opinion of what fantasy means, which is sad because you could learn to appreciate it alot more.

    If people vote that SW is science fiction, it only proves how little people know of the true meaning of the term, and also of fantasy itself.
     
  19. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    It is common knowledge Meteorain that Star Wars is a science/ space fantasy tale. It's not science fiction, everything Anakin stated is exactly right. Even as a small example from wikipedia to show you a comparison:

    "Star Wars is an epic science fantasy saga and fictional universe created by George Lucas during the late 1970s"


    But compare to Star Trek, the wikipedia article opens as:

    "Star Trek is an American science fiction entertainment series and media franchise"


    There is a difference, but I understand that some people get easily confused. Although I don't understand why people assume "fantasy" must mean old, magic, swords etc kind of tale. There's nothing in it's definition that has anything to do with that.

    To use another quote defining Fantasy:

    "Fantasy is a genre of art that uses magic and other supernatural forms as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. The genre is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by overall look, feel, and theme of the individual work, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (collectively known as speculative fiction). In its broadest sense, fantasy comprises works by many writers, artists, filmmakers, and musicians, from ancient myths and legends to many recent works embraced by a wide audience today."


    This can be used to define Star Wars easily. Star Wars is based on ancient myths and legends, it is just retold in another time, and with a technological support. However, the technology is not THE story. It is merely an element within it. The story is of Anakin Skywalker and his children. The Hero's Journey both played out with Luke and Anakin, though Anakin potrays the Anti'Hero side of mythic legend.

    The Force is a supernatural form in Star Wars, it is basically magic but under another name. The story of Star Wars could easily be placed in Medieval times, biblical times etc And indeed, the future. Though this story is set in the past according to the opening text, as far as we are concerned, it is the future in comparison to our technology. But it being portayed in a futuristic environment does not then mean the category changes from fantasy to science fiction.

    Also look, a article on Fantasy in Film, first picture you see is Star Wars lol

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_film

    Just had to comment :) Cause people often get this wrong
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  20. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    The thing is if you put up a poll "Is Star Wars fantasy or science fiction" yeah they would vote for science fiction, I know, cause people generalize. The majority of fantasy books is set in an ancient time, Star Wars is one of the few exceptions. As you they would only base their choice on the look of Star Wars and not the story...if you put up a poll which says is it a Science fiction film or a Space Fantasy, then people will choose more for Space Fantasy, but still I don't know if that choice would win, cause like I said, they would generalize just like you

    Anyway we're getting way off topic, I appologize, so could this all be moved to an appropriate section like star wars or debate...
     
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