Why didn't Gandolph just use an eagle to destroy the Ring?

Discussion in 'Movies' started by RavenRock, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. Technikie

    Technikie New Member

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    lets think about this.

    the eagle's are gandalfs friends, but they aren't his servents.

    Gandalf: hey eagles, wanna go fly into mordor over mount doom?

    Eagles: hell no! that's suicide!

    they coulden't just fly a bunch of eagles over. they would have had to deal with the full strength of mordor at the time. they would be attacked by Nazgul, shot at and Saruman would be throwing fireballs at them. deffinatly not a good plan.

    What i really wanna know. is when isildur dosen't deystroy the ring. why dosen't Elrond just shoot him and do it himself?

    would have been a short story then.
     
  2. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    simple. because that would be to easy and not make the novel epic. not one bit at the least epic.
     
  3. Roland

    Roland Go Horse's Go

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    Many people have mentioned Gandalf may be corrupted but he is also the only one that has any connection/friendship with the Eagles anyways so it would have to be him. Plus theres the whole matter of the ring wanting to get back to Sauron and how the eagles could be taken out,like someone said before, by arrows or the Nazgul on Fellbeasts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  4. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    so wait...if Gandalf didn't have some control over the eagles...Or a friendship, how could he escape from Isengard? Or convince them to save Frodo and Sam? Like in this stupid parody, they could have distracted Sauron by attacking Mordor, to get the eagles a safe passage over Mordor if If Aragorn stood up sooner to become king to unite the armies of Gondor and Rohan. And even if Sauron noticed them. The eagles are a lot faster than Frodo and Sam, so they could have dropped the ring in less than a minute. If they flew high enough arrows wouldn't be able to hit them.
     
  5. Roland

    Roland Go Horse's Go

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    I said he does have a friendship/connection with them(sorry if my post was worded strangely):

    And you still have the Fellbeasts and Nazgul, whos to say that the Eagles cant be corrupted themselves BTW they are obviously sentinet and it effects all the other races.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  6. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Yes I know you said that Roland, but not everybody seems to agree with that...I don't disagree. The ring would corrupt the eagles? They don't even have fingers to put it on. And it seemed that the eagles could easily defeat the Nazgul.
     
  7. Roland

    Roland Go Horse's Go

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    They have talons :D and the ring can change size, does the ring have to be put on for it to start the corruption, to my knowledge Isulder didn't put the ring on but he couldn't chuck it into the pit of mount doom.

    Like I mentioned the ring could also try and escape ''make its way to it's master' whos to say it wouldn't 'slip' off the Eagle onto Morder where a Orc could pick it up.

    Sorry for my misunderstanding
     
  8. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    well nobody is saying the eagles himself had to carry it. If Gandalf can fly it, so can Frodo. And if Frodo could carry it all the way to Mordor, he would have been able to carry it for a short eagle ride too.
     
  9. Roland

    Roland Go Horse's Go

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    Yeah I can see where you're coming from. However would the eagles take both Sam and him aswell, double the chance of detection. If Frodo went alone would he have the power to cast the ring into the flames? And would he be able to do it without Sams support?
     
  10. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Good question, but remember Frodo was corrupted because he carried that ring so long, so for a short eagle ride, it wouldn't have corrupted him so much. And I don't know, but would it have made a difference if he put it in a bag instead of hanging it around his neck. Seems like the closer the ring is to you, the more it corrupts you. I mean Bilbo wasn't that corrupted by it, and he carried that ring in his pocket for more than 60 years, correct?
     
  11. Roland

    Roland Go Horse's Go

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    Yes but i might add that Isulder as mentioned before had it for only a short amount of time after the fall of Sauron and could still not put it into the fire. Also Frodo had the ring for quite a lengthy period of time before Gandalf tells him of it's origins.

    One of the reasons that just occured to me in why they didn't use the eagle plan. Originally they where going to Mordor as a fellowship.This meant they had a lot more experience with than when Frodo and Sam had to go in alone.

    Aragorn for example could have discovered an easier way into Mordor and had experience in stealth aswell as combat. With their help and if the fellowship had been left whole they MAY have had an easier time destroying the ring. And possible a higher chance of being undetected and/or sucess.
     
  12. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Hrm...

    How about... The Eagle would be spotted. Great eagles tend to attract attention. As do Rings, by the way. I'm sure Sauron would have noticed Gandalf entering his realm through the air - or at least, Gandalf wouldn't have taken that risk. The Nazgul would have been sent after him, if he would be spotted. And I really doubt whether Gandalf and accompanying eagle would have survived that.

    Anyway, when Gandalf came to fetch the two hobbits from Mount Doom, Sauron and the Nazgul were destroyed; the risks were slightly smaller.

    But yes, Gandalf could have been corrupted during his flight, which is another risk he wouldn't have taken. So why not send Frodo on one of these birds? I'm sure Gandalf could have persuaded his kin to do so. I still think that Sauron would have spotted the bird. And besides, the bird could as well have been corrupted.

    Final question: plot hole? Only if you want it to be. There are ways to reason around it.
     
  13. SoulCatcher

    SoulCatcher New Member

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    but dont you think the eagles would have been affected in anyway by the ring? what i mean is that would the winged nazgul be the way they are if it werent for the ring? or with the winged nazgul is it just a case of being controlled by their riders?
     
  14. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I have no idea where the winged creatures the Nazgul ride come from. They certainly possess some power over these creatures, but how and what is a bit shrouded. And whether or not that has anything to do with the rings... I don't think the Nazgul still have their rings in the first place.

    I don't think the winged creatures were like the eagles before being corrupted. The eagles are of kin to the likes of Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron - or indeed, Balrogs. These are classified as maiar, which would be something like "helpers of the Gods". Far as I know, only the Balrogs and Sauron himself are Maiar gone astray; all corrupted by Morgoth in ages long gone.

    That doesn't mean the Eagles wouldn't have been affected. I think they could have sensed the power of the Ring - not to mention they probably already knew Frodo had the Ring, being the sentinals of the Gods, directly reporting to them.

    That, too, is probably another reason why the Eagles weren't asked to help get rid of the Ring. They are the watchmen of the God, who sent the 5 Istari to handle the job. Especially for Gandalf, asking the Eagles for help would have been like some sort of treason to the Gods. They do interfere at one point in time, which is highly unusual. And I'm still unsure whether Gandalf asked for help - or that the Gods offered a favour not to let the Quest end prematurely.

    Picking up Frodo and Sam from the Mountain probably was a favour, though only at the mercy of the Gods, which they show on some other occasions to the Last Ringbearer, if alone for the fact they grant him and his companions access to a small island off the coast of Valinor; something they've got very bad experience with...
     
  15. SoulCatcher

    SoulCatcher New Member

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    ah thanx that makes a lot sense over the winged nazgul, it helped me to understand it a bit better
     
  16. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    ask J.R.R tolkien.. hes the only one who knows (and i do know hes dead)
     
  17. Mystarian

    Mystarian Magistrate of the Earth

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    Probaly because it is one of the least stealthy ways into Mordor. Think about it, there are at least 4, maybe 5 Ringwraiths in Mordor at one time, Sauron's Eye would pick it up almost instantly, and Gandalf would be unlikely to get to Mount Doom before he was intercepted. Besides, only one of the Hobbits could have carried the Ring, owing to its corruption, and if they were caught, they would be toast. Anything larger than one Eagle would be spotted instantly, and even then the one Eagle has about a 69/31 chance of getting there anyway. So the only real way was the path taken.
     
  18. jim1961

    jim1961 New Member

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    I believe Gandolph would have been blasted from the skies well before he got close to Mt. Doom. All the eagles in existence would not have kept this from happening. And if somehow the eagles did get through, Mt Doom would have had a army around it and in the cave mouth by the time they got there.
     
  19. Sakura-chan

    Sakura-chan The Radish Spirit

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    i agree with turambar, an eagle would be relativly simple to shoot down.

    i don't think of it as a plot hole, an eagle could not have done what Frodo did- even though he was under the Ring's power Sam was there to help.
     
  20. Herald Of Woe

    Herald Of Woe Scourge of the seven seas

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    As has been said. Gandalf dared not take the ring. Not even to keep it safe. His own words.

    Sauron does not beleive that anyone would seek to destroy the ring. So by attempting to do so by sneaking it into his own land they keep him at a disadvantage. If Gandalf had attempted to fly straight into Mordor with the Ring I think Sauron would have easily been aware of him and he would make an easy target for Mordor's army.

    The ring is treacherous and could easily fall from Gandalf's grasp.

    The flight to Mordor would still take more than a day and so the eagle and Gandalf would have to stop to rest. Without the rest of the fellowship there what would happen if they were attacked?

    The journey of the fellowship also allowed it's memebers to grow and become "better" and find their paths. Aragorn leaves his exile and realises his destiny as King, Gimli and Legolas forge a friendship that would not have been thought of since days long gone where there was a friendship between elves and dwarves. Merry and Pipin become more mature, not to mention growing taller than Bandobras Took aka "The Bullroarer" Sam grows alot too and becomes far stronger than he would have even thought. All this would have been missed if Gandalf had tried a kamikaze run on an eagle into the heart of the dark lord's realm carrying the ring.
     
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