Who wants to live forever?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Turambar, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Ironic words from the man with AIDS, innit?

    Anyway, I had a seminar today concerning aging (and it's biological mechanisms). The last speaker was (in)famous Dr. Aubrey D.N.J de Grey, the prodidgy (or heretic) on theoretical life extension.

    Basically, he says it's possible to reach ages of 150...500...1000 up to even 5000 years! He says that Aging is like a desease and should be cured. (Rather, he says, it should be cured before the damage aging does becomes pathogenic, or has negative effects on us). He also says that the first man to become 150 is already alive and that the first man to become 1000 is only 10 years younger. Puzzling?

    His idea is that conquering aging comes in phases; the first step will be able to rejuvinate a middle-aged person (say - 50 years) about 30 years, or rather, have a person of 50 not or hardly age over that time. So his body would biologically be 50 at the end of the 30 years. By then, time catches up with the therapy, he postulates. "It's like cancer. The longer you have it, the harder it is to treat". However, that gives science another 30 years to come up with something completely new. This also would extend life with 30 years and so on. He also calculates that in science it usually takes about 20-30 years to discover a new frontier. This way, science outspeeds aging. Eternal life is around the corner, deads would only arise from say tragic accidents and plane crashes and the likes.

    If you think he's mad... well, you're not the only one. However, he also works at one of the most advanced Universities in the world (Cambride). Here is Dr. de Grey's website. I agree, his appearance works not in his benefit...

    Now, who's up? Who wants to live forever? To be honest, he sounded quite convincing, although I think that he's WAY too optimistic about the situation, he's on to something here. He's having such a novel way of looking at things, such new approach... Where can I get my shot to 3005 AD?
     
  2. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Wow, I never knew you had AIDS, sorry to hear that, I think it would be neat to leave forever, but also degrading, because if your friends and family did die, and you were left behind, then you would be probably a bit upset. Anyways, my faith, pretty much guaranties me a place in heaven, so...I would rather be there than here IMHO...dunno though...sounds cool.
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Relax, relax...

    Who wants to live forever is a song mate. If you've seen Highlander (and I suppose you have), you'd've heared it. As we all know Queen sung the soundtrack, with Freddy Mercury as it's singer. I think he already knew he was going to die when he wrote the number. That was the Irony I was poining out...
     
  4. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    ahhh, my bad...lol...sorry...
     
  5. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I certainly don't want to live forever. As Bard said if you have to experience all the deaths of all the friends you make if you live for example a 1000 years, that's a lot of misery. And even the one you love the most. That will always be a mark on your heart forever. Plus think of population. The population would increase too much with less people dying. It could get overpopulated. Or are they going to bring a law that says you can for example only have 2 kids and that their maximum age is 500 or 1000 if you pay more lol...wouldn't be fair in my opinion.
     
  6. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    exactly anakin, i feel that was as well, they have already tried doing that stuff in tokyo i think...though i am not sure......
     
  7. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    i would hate to live forever.. as bard said to see all your loved ones die off and you cant do anything about.. that would suxz0r
     
  8. Elynnya

    Elynnya Elynnya

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    I wouldn't want to live forever, even if it were possible for all my loved ones to die off. Everything would generally take longer becuase people would be saying "why rush, we have 300 more years". I really couldn't imagine working for 800 years, things would become boring and tedious. Life is beautiful becuase its short, becuase its short people are still able to go wow thats interesting and marvel at things going on around them. Without the shortness you'd wander through a beautiful forest, first twenty times you think wow and then its like "eh I've seen it all before". Its like getting a new computer game, the first few weeks its good and then boring.
    Just some thoughts.
     
  9. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Hah - I't won't take too long anymore before I become 23. Statistically, that would be 1/3'rd of my total life span. And basically, I haven't done anything at all till now. And concidering the last 23 years of my life won't be spent in totall health and fitness, I wouldn't mind adding another say... 50-100 years, yes.

    About people dying around you - Why would they? I mean, it's not that the therapy would be restricted to a select few, or so I imagine. Your friends would have the opportunity to add a same amount of years to their lives as well... If they choose not to, I can only say they will die happy in the thought they could've stretched it... And, as the theory goes, your body won't age, so there's nothing stopping you from replentishing your friend list.

    But really, life moves fast. Faster then you might think... Wouldn't it be lovely to add a year or two? Normal life consist only of getting born and raised, education, marriage and getting chidren; raising raising them, get old and die. yay for life! Wouldn't it be great to litterally buy some time for yourself?
     
  10. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    i am so amazed that you all actually want to die. i would love to live forever. your minds are stuck in a small, small box. the earth being over populated...bah. if our science advanced to the point of humans inducing eternal life, then we would definately be an evolved civilisation with the capabilities of spreading out amongst the stars.

    too, miserable conditions as they exist at present would have to be a thing of the past. it seem absolutely integral for society to advance in consciousness if eternal life is acheived. logic demands that it would have to be a place full of great and wonderful possibilities. life would get boring...double bah. have you no imagination?

    eternal life? well i'll let rush answer that question (insert eternal life for free will)

    You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
    You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
    I will choose a path that's clear
    I will choose freewill.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  11. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I feel that if we live forever, we won't treasure what we DO have. Are we going to remember memories about when we hung out with friends/families, or when something important happened? We might just start taking things for granted, just like Elynnya said.

    Also, if we live forever, we won't enjoy and use the time we have wisely. If we know that there's another thousand years left to live, are we going to take as much care with each other? It might all turn into "Why should I apologize to X person, I have another thousand years left to do it..." I think that the fact we KNOW we have a limited lifespan makes up grow up and mature. If we knew that we're going to live forever, would you try to act like a mature, sensible person? Why should you? There's still years left to go...

    And this is a cliché, but it's true. There's only life because of death, death because of life, etc. If we don't die, what happens? Is there a beginning without an ending? Part of the reason why we like living because we know we're going to die eventually. People are naturally attracted to the forbidden/limited.

    Besides, there's always trouble when humans try to play God. We don't seem to be built for it.

    Just my own thoughts.
     
  12. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    i'm extremely disappointed with the lack of vision you all demonstrate in your comments. this is especially troubling to me; i had assumed, since you have an interest in the fantasy genre, your imaginations would somewhat more evolved.

    to my dismay i find the very opposite...

    "Everything would generally take longer becuase people would be saying 'why rush, we have 300 more years'...things would become boring and tedious. Life is beautiful becuase its short,"

    "I feel that if we live forever, we won't treasure what we DO have."

    your reasoning eludes me. once more, i have come to find that i alone am the only true visionary left on this godforsaken earth. however, i only have myself to blame, as i inevitablely always set my expectation for humanity too high. humanity is beneath me. i must come to realise this for truth.

    i was not meant for this age. this age of darkness. i beleive in the infinite realm of possibility. my last hope is that you speak out of ignorance and inexperience. but a spade is a spade. which leads me to the conclusion, that the majority of people, who enjoy ideas birthed from the minds of others, is because they have no true vision in themselves.

    they are the people who fear.

    humanity as a whole turns it's back on eternal life. so be it. enjoy your disposable lives, your limited logic, your misconceptions of time. enjoy your death.
     
  13. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    ræsonING, this puzzles me...

    What is to fear when you accept your fate is death in the end? I see fighting death as the ultimate fear for the ultimate... And don't forget that death, in whatever from, will be the end. If that truck you didn't see hits you age 16, there's nothing that'll save you, Dr. de Grey or no. Why rebel against the inevertable?

    To all teenagers that indeed might be concidered to have a lack of conception of time: there will be a time that you will look back on half your life and see that you really have amounted to nothing and that death is approaching, whilst you find that you just started. Indeed, you will find that years pass quicker and quicker as you progress through them.

    However, I do hear some interesting opposing arguements against living forever. But let's think about the downside of our short lives: I think that the urge for people to leave a lasting impression on this world is born from our relatively short lifespan as well. And, arguably, this lead to both human's highs and lows. Yes, humanity has achieved technology pinacle due to this, but also wars have been fought over egos. Wouldn't half the human problems be solved by expanding lifespan by say... 100-200%?
     
  14. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    i do not fear death. i just do not welcome it. i strive against it and all its philosophies.

    "what is to fear when you accept your fate is death in the end?" you ask. "why rebel against the inevitable?" you say.

    what i am hearing are the voices of dead people. the people who never look beyond the threshold of their own front door. who dare not explore the world that lay across rivers and oceans. who look at the stars and see only stars.

    but in it all i see potential and potential realised. i see a challenge that gives me purpose and inspires me to strive for excellence. how can i settle for anything less if i can imagine it? there is no roof that can house my imagination. how can i be bored when there is so much more to know?

    i imagine infinity and perfection and so i will acheive it. or someone with the zest like mine. i do not fear death. i just do not let i rule my reason. i do not let it quench my passion. i do not let it cripple my imagination. the minds that imagine the infinite are the ones who reaps the secrets sown within the universe. eternal life means eternal evolution.
     
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  15. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I agree with most of what Turambar said. Turambar, but if you can't have the highs without the lows, which would you take? IMO, the lows make the highs look higher by comparison, and wihle this does NOT mean that I applaud lows, I'd probably take them both. But then I'm crazy.
     
  16. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I understand what you mean. I think indeed that the lows in my life have made me wiser. And I would commit murder to be able to have missed them, they formed me. It's like an old Johny Cash song I heared on the radio this morning called "A boy named Sue". But that aside.

    What I don't understand is how you wouldn't have lows if one was extremely long lived. I understand that death of someone close to you is about as low as it gets, but that doesn't mean life could be rock hard still. 250 years on the edge of poverty and starvation are not 250 years well spent, and certainly not in joy and pleasure...
     
  17. FantasyRoamer

    FantasyRoamer New Member

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    I would definately want to live forever. Even with all the cons. Think with living that long how wise and smart you could be. Plus you would have enough time to do anything you wanted. How much fun would that be?
     
  18. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    it is so refreshing to see a person of an affirmative disposition and that i am not the only person to disagree with the evil's of death. you are so true fantasyroamer, imagine all the possibilities that would present themselves should humans live forever. to quote john lennon, " you may say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one..."
     
  19. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Well, to live forever is alluring. But I can't pay the price^^. And the price is, that I would have to live forever. Forever is a strong word. It means FOR EVER and not 1000 years or so. It is, there is no end, this is what fears me. To see no end. I couldn't stand this, not on this world. This world is too bad, with too many idiots, poverty and war. That's not my world I want to live in.
    And in another point: It'd get so boring.
    It waould be an agony to live forever. A never stopping agony....
    brr, I'm happy not to live forever.
     
  20. Richard Rahl

    Richard Rahl New Member

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    This is certainly an interesting topic. With sort of the "ultimate" list of pros and cons.

    If it was just I living forever, then of course the fact that all my loved ones and friends would die would be a very sorrowful, if not harrowing, experience. You'd be one among the billions, but you'd feel utterly alone. I imagine outliving all your relatives and friends in the real world is difficult enough, but going through eternity with that on your mind, well, who can possibly imagine what effect that would have on you? I suppose on the plus side, if this can be called a plus, living for so long, you may forget about those deaths. Though unlikely.
    The only other con I see with immortality is that you live forever! You've seen it all. At some point in time, things would cease to change, and you would then be stuck in a world that you would eventually resent. So resentment and the grief of losing those you held dearest is the price you pay for living forever. That's a high price.

    Pros. You live forever! Can you imagine having lived through the ancient Egyptian, Greek, and Roman Civilizations? Through the middle ages, the Renaissance? All the way to the present day, and beyond! The knowledge you would've attained, the spectacles you would've seen, would have been breathtaking, to say the very least. One person in history to have seen everything, but the only person not to become history. That is saying something! Wisdom and knowledge, things that people should hold in high regard, would be yours many, many times over. Being able to teach would be a rewarding experience, even though your subjects would never believe it was first hand knowledge!
    Also, you never know what will come in the future, what other vast and amazing things you will be part of. If anyone could claim the earth as his or her own, it would be you, for you alone have walked it through its history. And perhaps even being written down in history. It happens to people now of course, but they will not be able to see it centuries in the future. You will though. You will see, and see everyone else see, that you have shaped the world in which they live.

    Love is another pro. Some believe that there's only one true love out there for each person, but for someone who lives forever, that would be nearly impossible I think. If you've ever felt love, then you'll know it's perhaps the best feeling in the world. Experiencing it many times over therefore, would be a nice thing, no? I suppose a vicious cycle ensues though. Grief would mount after each loved one died, but hope would be renewed at the prospect that another would come along. I guess it would depend on which took longest. The grief to disappear, or the loved one to come along.

    If I had the choice, I would live forever. The cons are there, no question about it, and they are great, but I think being more than history would be something you’d have to do if you could.