Which things/events were/are confusing to you on your first read?

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time' started by GameMaster, May 4, 2004.

  1. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    It took me a second glance to see that True Power was different from the True Source, I kept confusing them in the beginning.

    I also thought that the Grey Ajah were primarily occupied with meditation not mediation hehe.

    There are others which will come into mind as you guys put your thoughts in.
     
  2. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Something that confused me the first time was how to say "Nyneave". Then i looked in the glossary. Thats about the best i can do.
     
  3. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    What is exactly the difference? I might of missed that one so far, unless it is explained in WH or CoT.
     
  4. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    The True Source is what the One Power is drawn from, however the True Power is the Power that stems from the Dark One, its what Moridin, and apparently Shaidar Haran use. It can't be felt by channelers, and is more addictive than using the One Power. It also causes the saa that Moridin has.
     
  5. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Didn't Lanfear (Mierin, a brown when she was an Aes Sedai) find or discover the True source, and in trying to use it and study it, make the hole in the Dark One's prison?

    Is it only possible for those connected to the DO to use it?
     
  6. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I don't know that I totally understand the True Power myself. Other than what EMT just stated. Is it more powerful the TOP? HMM
     
  7. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Its about the same strength as the OP, but channelers cant feel the True Source being channeled, so they can't see it coming. Its very deadly. Only those connected to the Dark One, and have his permission (Moridin, since he is Nae'blis) can use it.

    And yes, Mierin and Beidomen discovered it and drilled into it, creating what is now known as the Bore.

    Hope that clears lots of things up.
     
  8. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    There were no Ajahs in the Age of Legends so Mierin was only a servant (Aes Sedai then were called servants of all) with a third name (Aes Sedai strived for this third name by doing remarkable things such as research and other stuff, Mesaana never got hers so she was always bitter about it), a very respectable servant doing research in the Collaan Dam trying to find a new source of power, and what she found was not the True Source which saidin and saidar are drawn from but True Power which comes from Shaitan.

    So the True Source is analogous with the One Power from which saidin and saidar are drawn from. The True Power on the other hand comes from the Dark One.


    Here's an in depth FAQ from wotmania about True Power. I think this would give you guys a better understanding:

    What is the True Power?
    This FAQ is an attempt to gather and analyze all available information on the True Power.

    What is the True Power?

    We know what the One Power is and where it comes from. The True Power is different and has a different source. The phrase "True Power" was first revealed in A Crown of Swords. In the following books there have been numerous references to the origin of the True Power.



    The True Power, drawn directly from the Great Lord. . . .
    The Power that came from the Dark One. . . .
    True Power, drawn from the Great Lord himself. . . .
    It is no surprise that the Dark One allows his supporters to draw on a power at least as strong as the One Power.

    Although the phrase "True Power" was revealed in A Crown of Swords, the True Power itself was made known when Rand entered Rhuidean and saw the past.


    Mierin had said today was the day. She said she had found a new source for the One Power. Female Aes Sedai and male would be able to tap the same source, not separate halves. What men and women could do united would be even greater now that there would be no differences. And today she and Beidomon would tap it for the first time--the last time men and women would work together wielding a different Power.

    -The Shadow Rising, The Dedicated
    The True Power is similar to the One Power, but is reserved for Shadowsouled channelers. It can be equally drawn by male and female channelers, which is one of a few elements that distinguish it from the One Power.

    True Power Characteristics

    It is mentioned above that both male and female channelers can use the True Power. However, it seems unlikely that male and female channelers would unite to use the True Power the way Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends united to use the One Power. First of all, Darkfriends are reticent to cooperate with anybody else. Secondly, the True Power, as something that comes directly from the Dark One, seems more suitable for destruction rather than for creation.


    To his ears, the world screamed as he used the True Power to rip a small hole and step outside the Pattern.

    -A Crown of Swords, Patterns within Patterns

    His fingers tightened in the wrought-iron grille across the window; the metal groaned, twisting, not from his grip but from the tendrils of the True Power, drawn from the Great Lord himself, that wreathed around the grillework, flexing as he flexed his hand in anger.

    -The Path of Daggers, Unweaving
    Those who channel the One Power, often mention the incredible desire to draw as much saidar or saidin as possible. If too much of the One Power is drawn, it can kill or burn out the channeler. Nevertheless, they develop a sense about how much can be drawn and avoid overusing it. With the True Power this is impossible.


    In the long run, the True Power was far more addictive than the One Power; a strong will could hold down the desire to draw more saidar or saidin, but she herself did not believe the will existed strong enough to resist the True Power. . . .

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap

    He himself had never touched the True Power except at need. Great need. Of course, only Moridin had that privilege now, since his . . . anointing. The man truly was insane to use it so freely. It was a drug more addictive than saidin, more deadly than poison.

    -Winter’s Heart, Wonderful News
    The True Power can be an extremely useful and dangerous weapon. Neither male nor female channelers can sense other people using it.


    The watcher followed and listened. They had no idea. The True Power, drawn directly from the Great Lord, could neither be seen nor detected except by who wielded it.

    -A Crown of Swords, Patterns within Patterns

    Demandred flinched in spite of himself. That had been the True Power; he had felt nothing.

    -Winter’s Heart, Wonderful News
    At the end of A Crown of Swords, the mysterious Wanderer (Moridin?), probably uses the True Power to make balefire. Rand, curious about who the mysterious man is, notices something odd.


    Rand teetered after him, but when he reached the mouth of the narrow alley, it was empty. Unbroken walls ran a good hundred paces to another street, where a glow told of yet another part of Mashadar abroad, but the man was gone. Which was purely impossible. The fellow had had time to make a gateway, of course, if he knew how, but the residue would have been visible, and besides, that much of saidin being woven so near would have shouted at him.
    Suddenly he realized that he had not felt saidin when the man made balefire, either.
    -A Crown of Swords, A Crown of Swords
    He is surprised that the man is gone and there is no residue. He doesn't remember feeling the man channel saidin. As such, saidar can also be excluded because Rand would be aware of it.

    Moreover, when the True Power and the One Power "meet," the effects may be painful.


    Without a thought, his free hand rose, and balefire shot upward, a bar of liquid white fire slicing across the wave sinking toward them. Dimly he was aware of another bar of pale solid fire rising from the other man's hand that was not clasping his, a bar slashing the opposite way from his. The two touched.
    Head ringing like a struck gong, Rand convulsed, saidin and the Void shattering. Everything was doubled in his eyes, the balconies, the chunks of stone lying about the floor. There seemed to be a pair of the other man overlapping one another, each clutching his head between two hands.
    Just thinking of that, of the two streams touching, made his vision double again.

    -A Crown of Swords, A Crown of Swords
    It is unclear whether these are the effects of the touching of the streams of different Powers or just two weaves of balefire. Separate weaves of balefire being thrown at each other hasn't happened, but it can be assumed the effect the two men experienced was caused by the True and One Powers clashing.

    The saa

    A channeler who uses enough of the True Power and does so for an extended time period, develops a visible sign of addiction, the saa. There is a lot of evidence in the books about this.


    He seized the True Power without thought, the saa billowing black across his sight.

    -The Path of Daggers, Unweaving

    Moghedien gasped. Not for the name; any fool could call himself Death. But a tiny black fleck, just large enough to see, floated straight across one of those blue eyes and then across the other in the same line. This Moridin had tapped into the True Power, and more than once. Much more.

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap

    Black flecks floated across his [the Watcher's] vision.

    -A Crown of Swords, Patterns within Patterns

    A black speck floated across Moridin's blue eyes, then another, in a steady stream. The man must have been using the True Power exclusively since he last saw him to gain so many saa so quickly.

    -Winter’s Heart, Wonderful News
    The Price

    Whenever the use of the True Power is mentioned, there are references to the terrible price a channeler must, sooner or later, pay.


    The True Power washed around her, so strong here that attempting to channel it would fry her to a cinder. Not that she had any desire to pay the price elsewhere either.
    She herself did not believe the will existed strong enough to resist the True Power, not once the saa appeared in your eyes. The final price was different, but no less terrible.

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap

    There was a price, to be sure, one that grew with each use, but he [the Watcher] had always been willing to pay the price when it was necessary. Being filled with the True Power was almost like kneeling beneath Shayol Ghul, basking in the Great Lord's glory. The glory was worth the pain.

    -A Crown of Swords, Patterns within Patterns
    Apart from those two instances, there is no more information on the nature of the price. But they are enough to paint a vivid picture of what the price is.

    Who may tap the True Power?

    First and foremost, whoever wants to risk the use of the True Power must be a channeler. Non-channelers, that is anyone who cannot wield the One Power, are not able to access the True Power.

    Secondly, as the ability to use the True Power is granted exclusively by the Dark One, the channeler must be a Darkfriend. Among Darkfriends, it is considered to be the utmost honor to be granted the privilege of tapping the True Power.


    She knew that some men who could channel survived in this time aside from al'Thor—this fellow was much of a size with al'Thor—but she had not expected the Great Lord to allow one that particular honor.

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap
    As a result, only the most trustworthy are allowed to channel the True Power. Moghedien revealed the total number of people that ever could access it.


    "Only twenty-nine others have ever been granted--"

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap
    Who were/are they? There is a hint as to the identity of those able to channel it now.


    The woman [Halima] channeled to make a light, and Moghedien saw only the light. It had to be saidin—among the living, only the Chosen knew how to tap the True Power—the Power that came from the Dark One--

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap
    There were twenty-nine total allowed to use the True Power and thirteen of them were the Forsaken. Who were the remaining sixteen? Most likely they were those Forsaken who didn't survive the War of the Power:


    During the War of Power, more than a dozen of the Chosen had died of the Great Lord's suspicion.

    - Winter’s Heart, Wonderful News

    What is the current number of those who can tap the True Power? It is known that only the Forsaken can do this, but a few other things are known as well.


    The True Power was denied her [Moghedien], of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing.

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap
    It can be assumed that since Moghedien is denied use of the True Power, Cyndane, and most likely, Aran’gar and Osan’gar aren’t allowed to use it at this stage either. All the dead Forsaken can be excluded as well. They are: Be’lal, Asmodean, Rahvin and Sammael. It is known that Moridin channels the True Power, and Demandred did, at least once. Also, Graendal, Semirhage and Mesaana, as Forsaken, should be allowed to use it. We must however remember that Demandred clearly stated only Moridin is allowed to do this now. To sum up, out of the nine living people that know how to use the True Power only one has the privilege.

    The total number of people ever allowed to tap True Power may be disputable. Moghedien mentioned that:


    "Only twenty-nine others have ever been granted—[the priviledge]"

    -A Crown of Swords, Mindtrap

    The question is, whether she meant 29 people excluding herself or excluding Moridin. If that were other people than she, the total number would reach 30. It is however safe to assume she was confused with a new, previously unknown to her channeler using True Power (Moridin) and meant 29 others including herself.

    Did Ishamael channel the True Power?

    It is known that he certainly could, but did he do so? In the prologue to the The Eye of the World, Ishamael says:


    "A pity for you," he mused, "that one of your Sisters is not here. I was never very skilled at Healing, and I follow a different power now. But even one of them could only give you a few lucid minutes, if you did not destroy her first. What I can do will serve as well, for my purposes." His sudden smile was cruel. "But I fear Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know. Be healed, Lews Therin!" He extended his hands, and the light dimmed as if a shadow had been laid across the sun.

    -The Eye of the World, Prologue: Dragonmount
    Ishamael clearly states, "I follow a different power now." Was that the True Power? It seems very likely it was. Even given the fact that male Healing is of the rougher sort (Asha’man admit only their results resemble Aes Sedai Healing.), it must be taken into account how it looked and felt.


    Pain blazed in Lews Therin, and he screamed, a scream that came from his depths, a scream he could not stop. Fire seared his marrow; acid rushed along his veins. He toppled backwards, crashing to the marble floor; his head struck the stone and rebounded. His heart pounded, trying to beat its way out of his chest, and every pulse gushed new flame through him. Helplessly he convulsed, thrashing, his skull a sphere of purest agony on the point of bursting. His hoarse screams reverberated through the palace.

    Slowly, ever so slowly, the pain receded. The outflowing seemed to take a thousand years and left him twitching weakly, sucking breath through a raw throat. Another thousand years seemed to pass before he could manage to heave himself over, muscles like jellyfish, and shakily push himself up on hands and knees.

    -The Eye of the World, Prologue: Dragonmount
    This passage may indicate Ishamael used the True Power to give Lews Therin a moment of clear thought.

    Later, in the Heart of the Stone, when Rand took Callandor, Ba'alzamon arrived, but Rand felt nothing, as if Ishamael did not channel saidin. It is possible that Rand didn’t feel saidin being used because he was still a novice in the use of the One Power, but Traveling requires a lot of saidin and he would have to sense the amount necessary to Travel, especially when it occured so close to him.

    Since Rand didn’t sense it, that could mean Ba'alzamon/Ishamael used the True Power. As pointed out earlier, it cannot be sensed by anyone except the person using it.

    On the other hand, Ishamael later flees from Rand, but this time Rand feels something.


    Ba'alzamon fled, man and shadow vanishing.
    For a moment Rand stared, frowning. There had been a sense of--folding--as Ba'alzamon left. A twisting, as if Ba'alzamon had in some way bent what was.

    -The Dragon Reborn, What Is Written in Prophecy
    Of course, Ba'alzamon could use the True Power and the One Power alternately - but in The Fires of Heaven, Nynaeve feels a folding when Rand makes a gateway out of the World of Dreams - and the gaffes of The Great Hunt aside, it is clearly established by this time that women canNOT feel saidin being used. It appears likely that this "folding" can be felt by anyone (any channeler?) when someone makes a gateway into or out of Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh.

    It has since been confirmed, however, that Ishamael did use the True Power in the prologue to The Eye of the World. At the Menlo Park COT signing, Robert Jordan answered a question about Ishamael's appearance in the Prologue to Eye of the World. Ishamael appeared in a shimmering fashion, instead of the flash of light associated with Traveling, because he was Traveling with the True Power. This makes the possibility that both Moridin and Ishamael used the True Power almost exclusively.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2004
  9. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Wow, very indepth. Also, i believe Shaidar Haran uses the True Power. And i think that the flames covering Ishamael's eyes were advanced symptoms of the saa

    What do you guys think ?
     
  10. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    I agree with both notions.
     
  11. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    the thing that confused me the most was in eotw when the scene when the scarves happens twice. turns out it's just a badly done flashback, but i was REALLY confused. :)
     
  12. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Apperently lots of people thought that, but i never noticed.
     
  13. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I can't believe id forgot about this, but when i was first reading it, i mistakenly read Darkfriends as Darkfiends and it took me forever to break the habit of saying Darkfiends in my head whenever that word came along.
     
  14. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    you darkfiend!!!! haha :)
     
  15. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Hehe, I realized last night that I was reading Conical Helmet as Comical Helmet :p.
     
  16. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Aaaaah shuddup Shaiel....

    Hehehe....comical helmet, thats a good one.
     
  17. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    By the way, WOTmania is back up finnaly. What happened anyway, does anyone know ?
     
  18. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    problem with the games board, apparently.
     
  19. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Haha, i just realized (last nite) that i have been reading Avendoraldera as Avendoradelra. How odd.