Which side do you choose?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Foinikas, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    This is a debate poll that just came to my mind so here's there question:

    If you took part in the Spanish Civil War on whose side would you be?Watch it though it's a bit tricky because both sides contained people of various ideologies for example the Republicans mostly contained communists,socialists,anarchists,catalan and basque separatists,liberals and others and the Rebels or Nationalists were composed of the nationalists,simple right-wing patriots,fascists,royalists,democrats and other.

    Sometimes during the war I think individuals from both sides questioned the side they were on.
     
  2. Rob Darken

    Rob Darken New Member

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    I support the rights of Nationalists everywhere, so the choice for me is easy.
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    OK... that made no sense whatsoever. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you Rob?

    And about one thing, we can be certain. The Fascists (because that's what they were) weren't the most desirable outcome of the war. Franco was a dictator of the dictating kind. And he remained so for many decades after this civil war.

    But the alternative, the socialists (safely referred to as Communists) would probably have done much the same. So this is a war without winners to start with. Maybe it'd been better if Spain had split up into the several regions it consists of in the first place. It would have been very hard for some of these regions to let go of the federation, but it would have been better in the long run. Too bad that the two major factions agreed that, if anything, that was not going to happen.

    Interesting, though. I think that this might be the only direct confrontation of communism and anti-communism (gerenally referred to as fascism) in a civil war situation.
     
  4. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    as a true anarchist i would have chosen the communist, tho i would be forced to become a guerilla fighter regardless
     
  5. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Wow i didn't know you were an anarchist jim :p
    At least i'm not alone anymore >.<
    I'd have chosen the same, if i had to choose.
     
  6. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    true anarchy, not popular.
    in true there are local councils that rule, each town is separate.
    popular is the whole chaos thing
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Although I am a right-wing patriot or if I may say a "healthy nationalist" and would most probably have more in common with nationalists from other countries I still don't understand how nationalists from certain countries could cope!Lol!

    But anyway,Turambar the outcome was sad because a number somewhere between 30,000 to 200,000 of people(leftists)were executed after the war.Of course let's not forget the executions and attrocities committed by the Republicans during the war which do mount in thousands as well,but the reaction of Franco's regime was perhaps too much after the war.For example in Greece after the civil war between the communists and the royalists,democrats,nationalists there were hard and huge efforts which at a big level DID succeed,of national reconciliation.Although we're still divided in left and right,however it wasn't a bloody civil war anymore.

    But yeah during the Spanish Civil War both sides executed members.The biggest persecution of the Spanish Catholic Church was during the Spanish Civil War were leftists executed thousands of nuns and priests and generally the clergy(figures and numbers can be easily found in Wikipedia).

    Now as for me I would definetely be on the side of the Nationalists.

    By the way this thread was supposed to have a poll but I got d/c right when it was getting posted and...no poll after all!:p
     
  8. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    And my rock-steady belief in the liberal democracy allows you to do so, even though I don't agree.

    Though you do seem to shun the word Fascist, which I find remarkable. I mean, Franco was a fascist as much as Mussolini was - or even moreso, as Mussolini was more of a populist, all things considered.

    And, as any Spaniard (or most I've spoken to, at least) can tell you, the outcome which was in favour of the nationalists, wasn't positive at all; decades of dictatorship - which was pretty much what the Nationalists were aiming for, if I remember correctly (it sort of goes with the whole fascist thing). In fact, the outcome was devastating, and led Spain into decades of slow development and economic growth (if growth at all).

    But again, I'm not sure the Communists (referred to as socialists) would have done any better....
     
  9. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Fascism reminds me more of Italy and Mussolini and Mussolini attacked us during WWII and that isn't so nice.Actually the Italians never wanted this war(nor did Hitler as well)but Mussolini wanted to look great and equal to Hitler...but like Eddie Izzard said:

    "...(The Italians)are into football and life and they're not fascists!
    -Right we're all fascists!
    -Eeer...alright.Ciaaaao!;)"


    And because Mussolini was a buffoon it gives me a negative look on the whole ideology.Plus the communists and the anarchists here put every right-wing person from conservatives,to patriots,to pure royalists to nationalists,to neo-nazis,to ancient-greece loving only neo-pagans as "fascists".It's annoying!Plus if you would make me choose between Italian fascism and German national socialism I guess I'd go for the second one even though I disagree with a lot of stuff(the negative mostly and the anti-religious)National Socialism was talking about.

    I don't know much about Franco's Spain this whole period of Spanish history is like a blank page to me,maybe he was bad maybe he was ok.But I know that although a true and legitimate Spanish "Republic" sounds very prestigious and right,I think that it would lead to a communist dictatorship or at least a seriously malfunctioning government and eventually in a malfunctioning country.Perhaps a few years or perhaps a few decades after it was settled down or if it won the war.Can you imagine the persecutions of the the catholic church and the anti-communists if the leftists had won the war?Of course the Francoists did actually do a huge purge of anti-communists and that screws the whole thing up.

    But yeah if you asked me to stand for homeland,faith,king,family that's what I would stand for.
     
  10. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    I don't really know much about the Spanish civil war, but the communists were in power and then an Italy/Germany funded fascist movement rebelled against them and took over right? I would have supported the communists because they weren't the usurpers, they were in power before the civil war.
     
  11. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    You got it pretty much right.As for the communists I'm not sure but I think the leftists in power illegally changed some stuff in the constitution and caused the people to react.I think they also started doing some stuff most of the people and the other political parties were against that's why there was a rebellion.I don't know the details though but I did get a nice book about the Spanish Civil War that I was looking for a long time now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009