Which Philosophy is better

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by darkdragon, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. Hawkbat

    Hawkbat Master of Doom

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Right about....here
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Well if all Religeons Gods come from the same source then the people "Veiwing it" differenly can and would be mearly changing God into a figure they can beleive in and feel satisfaction for believing in, and yet still do what they want. I am a Christian and still see many christians viewing things so they have liberties that would seem to me to be contradictory to the Bible itself. for other people who do not believe in a "Deity" they would still have to obey somthing, if everyone lived believing in only themselves and living for today and stuff, then there would be no reason to live, if we live just to live then we die, then no matter what we did, we would still die, and no matter how we helped/hurt other people, they would die eventually and there would be no purpose.
    Lord_Hawkbat
     
  2. 1Ranger

    1Ranger New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I would first say that the best Philosophy is the one that can truly make your life better and one that is not filled with empty promises of enlightenment or freedom.

    I would also say that in the realm of religious thought, there is no way that every religion can be right, depending on who your are or what you believe. Everything is not relative, there are fundamental truths in life that are absolutes and no matter what you believe they are truths. Believe what you will, but don't confuse your belief with truth. If you say that there is no such thing as an absolute, then you have just disproved your point. You can't believe in an absolute statement if you believe nothing is absolute.

    That being said, I believe that Christianity is the only way to truth, freedom, and eternal life. Yes, I am a Christian, and that works for me. But don't tell me that I worship the same god as a Baal worshipper, or a mystic, or a wiccan, or an atheist. The fact of the matter is that many religions are diametrically opposed to one another and they cannot, I repeat cannot be worshipping the same "source of the universe." That is, God has told us that, told me that, through his infallible and inspired Word. All religions are not created equal and just because you like the way something sounds, it doesn't make it any better at providing your real truth, life, or freedom.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2004
  3. yxsarvik

    yxsarvik New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I take and accept what's real. That's what is right for me. Cause it's the only right thing obviously.

    I do like philosophy a lot. It at least tries to answer some questions.
    But we'll never get to the answers like this. Philosophy as well as all religions is still a part of human mind. It goes as far as human mind is able to think, imagine. Therefore it can't be valid. It's interesting of course. What we're able to think up, make up, where we're able to get.
    But the real truth is outside of course. Look out of the window. What you see is what you should believe. Because it is there. It's there, and it's the proof it exists.

    So, I naturally believe in realism... in the world we see and experience. Who we are.
     
  4. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    1ranger:
    If we can't tell you.

    Then don't tell me. (I had to point out the obvious contradiction, it was bugging me.)
     
  5. 1Ranger

    1Ranger New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    There is no contradiction. Both quotes are discussing the differences between those religions and I will not accept that if you worship God, and another worships Baal, and one worships the planet, or believes in mysticism, they are not worshipping one "entity" (for lack of a better word right now). This was in reference to comments that indicated that we all worship in "the deity" that exists in different ways. The point is that I don't worship an entity that has the characteristics of these religions, It is drawing a distinction between the "gods" worshiped by these worshipers. Yes, I believe that I have the truth, otherwise I would not hold the faith that I do, but I was really commenting that they are NOT different ways of worshipping the same being.
     
  6. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    I'm too sure if you understand what I pointed out.

    The first quote I provided you insisted that we do not tell you that you believe in other religions, thus implying that your religion is wrong.

    Then on my second quotation you spoke (perhaps preach is a better word) that our beliefs are wrong.

    Maybe contradiction is lacking the definition I want. Maybe hipocripsy will better define what was bothering me about that post.

    Nonetheless, I have pointed it out and I am content.
     
  7. 1Ranger

    1Ranger New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I'm glad you are content.

    I don't have any problem with you stating your faith, your beliefs, or lack thereof. So don't take the first comment to mean that. What I am arguing against is that "we" all (collective of religion) worship the same being. If that is what you believe, then fine. But I don't hold that belief. So maybe I misunderstood what your belief is. My argument against that is that if all these religions worshiped the same god, then that god would have to be a split-personality full of inconsistent statements. Is this the position that you are arguing... God is all things to all people and nothing in and of Himself? I guess that may be what you mean?
     
  8. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    baton rouge
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    Me personally I don't care what philosphy you believe in, as long as it teaches you to live a good life then that's all that matters.
     
  9. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    Ah alright. Mistake, and misinterpetation on my part.

    Yes, in a way, that is what I believe. Basically he allows his followers to interpet him in which ever way they choose. They decide if he's wrathful, or kind. 'God' has no definite characteristics and displays no definite characteristics to his followers. So yes he is a split personality, full of inconsistant statements, but only because that is the way his followers beliefs combined make him appear. Hopefully I'm making this somewhat understandable?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2004
  10. pinkflyingwalruses

    pinkflyingwalruses Beatnik

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,991
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    the von.
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    I am very tolerant and open to new ideas when it comes to this subject. My main belief is that all religions, no matter how different, are all the same in the end. even the differences between poly/monotheistic beliefs, all have a good purpose to them and all mean well. Also, I think beliefs can give people hope.
     
  11. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    baton rouge
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    I tend to approach religion from a different angle. I see it as a cultural phenomenon of human civilization. Looked at that way, the study of religion through the ages is extremely fascinating. You can see the common threads/themes/stories/etc. that have come down through nearly all human religions from the ancient societies to the religions of today. You can see echoes of Egyptian theology in present day Christian beliefs. An important theme of sacrifice has been the forefront of nearly every major religion. I think if you strip away all the trappings and trimmings, you'll find that at the core, most world religions are very similar. This begs the question, how much different is one belief from another anyway. Humans have a tendency, as a whole, to gravitate towards the same basic spirituality in purist form. Its how they go about practicing it that has thrown up the barriers between peoples and religions. To me this is a shame, because this is how religion is used to use people. It always becomes a mechanism of control and politics rather than a true spiritual journey. Hence why I am personally anti-religion. I believe each person must find their way to truth themselves and do what is necessary for them to get there. I think it is important to internalize your search and to seek for what is real yourself. This is also a major theme present in most religions, and in psychology as well, it simply gets lost in the mechanism because it is anti-control, or god-forbid -- , at core. But this is the major idea of human development, to think for oneself. Psychologists describe it as reaching the ego state, when you know right from wrong, good from bad, for yourself, and do good because YOU want to, to reach YOUR potential. This is a far cry from doing what someone or somebook or somelaw tells you cuz you get positive or negative reinforcement for your actions (the promise of heaven or threat of hell still being in this category). But it also takes a lot of work. It is difficult and it is continuous. That is why most people don't bother and just let religion do the work for them - this will keep them from doing harm much of the time, but does it really make them a good or spiritual person? Learn why the bible says its wrong, dont just say its wrong cuz the bible says so, then see if you really agree. I believe great world spiritual/religious leaders in history came to help us to guide us to set us on the right path, but this does not absolve us from actually walking it ourselves. Christian religions speak most often about "carrying our crosses" but they also have the most tendency to shirk it off on god so they dont have to figure it out for themselves. Take the law for example. Yes, the law says don't kill people and you will probably go to jail if you do, but i for one would hope that isnt the only thing stopping you. I would hope you realize that a life constitutes immeasurable value, and it is wrong to that out just cuz you feel like it -- otherwise, there really isn't much to stop you, and you're just running around a barely controlled child waiting for the moment the authorities aren't looking so you can get away with something. You have to internalize, search, think, find, figure out. It does no good to say you are one religion or a follower of one philosopy unless you are constantly working at it, turning it over in your mind and reaffirming or discarding it or parts of it. This doesnt mean that community "worship" or such is worthless. Other people are here because we are all doing the same thing and we can help each other. Others can point out different views or obstacles or paths you didn't or couldn't see or find on your own. People are sounding boards, fellow pilgrims, followers and guides. Even those you are certain are wrong or "false" have taught you something. Take it all in, then sift through it for yourself.

    "Spare me the wise man certain in his wisdom, give me instead the fool uncertain of his folly."
     
  12. The Hound

    The Hound The Everlasting Scream

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I said this in one of the other threads but figured it applied here too. I think that most religions are just interpretations of the same thing, something that humans truly can't fathom.

    It's a shame that we have to put a different name on beliefs and seperate ourselves like humans do in nearly every other thing.
     
  13. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    I judge a religion primarily by what that religion's god demands (ie the rules of the religion) You see, If that god is my creator than he has every right to demand whatever of me. The first demand of a religion is to prove (at the very least on it's own terms) that the god of the religion is functional, powerful and existing. The rest of the religion has to be judged based on the merits of it's own god's existance. If a religion cannot provide reasonable support for it's own claims than it cannot be reliable as a proof system for morality or anything else.

    I think that a vacant or false god or prophet is much more harmful than that (assuming the existance of a real God) because that church is leading others on a path away from the True God. Even in a perfect message, a mistaken quote of that message can cause lead down the wrong path.

    I think that you are stretching a bit comparing a religion that required human sacrifice to Christianity. Remember that Christianity is the religion where God sacrificed himself for his people. People who were so corrupt, they were hopelessly lost. This is fundamentally different from religions whose gods are petty and jealous. Religions where the gods themselves are guilty of their own laws. Religions that are more willing to kill off competitors than encourage convergance.

    If there is One God and he has left specific instructions explaining his will, there should be an importance on determining what those instructions are, and even more so on weeding out the commands of false gods. Just because there is a percieved vagueness doesn't exclude the imperitive.

    Where is this from? Who in any practical matter associates with fools? I am much more comfortable with practiced overconfidence than uncertain fumbling in almost every enviornment. Personally I like cautiously methodical myself but you only had two choices...
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2004
  14. Fingon

    Fingon The High King

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    You speak wise words. You may find comfort in any religion or belief there is. You dont have to be a person of deep spirit to believe into something. God is one. Many names have been made for him, but he is one.
    ~Fingon
     
  15. Celestial Wanderer

    Celestial Wanderer searching for peace...

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Indeed. The Rig Veda says
    " The Truth is one; sages call It by various names"

    I believe in the Adviata philosophy of Hinduism, as it seems the most logical and complexed, to me. It acknowleges the fallacies of speculations regarding God, even its own.

    For Hinduism, we divided our Sriptures into two categorieds: shruti ( heard) and smirti(written). Those under the smrti are the aspects of commonfolk Hinduism. We are given freedom to construct ownb own theology,belief and way of worship. The Bhagavat Gita, a book in Hinduoism, guides us on our choice of worship, as the pursuit of spirituality is up to the individual. No dogmas, no creed, no persecution. ( althought the Hindu society is never like that, but thats another issue altogether). Still, we never killed people in the name of religion, and it was us who allowed the Pharsees to practise their religion, when Islam and the greeks were after their heads. I have yet to find an established relgion this sublime and unique.

    True, Hinduism has many faults, none of which lie in our belief systems. The belief of karma and reincarnation is mocked and scored by a few, but it has remain a universal belief throughout the Orient, in the ancient days. Everyone, even agnostics( Buddhists and Jainist, Chinese religions), believed in reincarnation. Caste system is just a blotch on us, thats it.

    Other than that,Hinduism is seen as an alternative religion, in the West. Many temples have been builts all over the world.

    Moraliuty itself, is subjective. So a demanding God is certainly not on my books.He is kind, loving, mer cciful--and the personal God evolves from our ego. In truth, He is both personal and impersonal, and neither.

    The Upanishads say

    " About It, one can only say Not--,Not--"

    People experience God in His various means of revelation. God revealed himself, in the form of men who are filled with Love, like Jesus, Buddha, Rama and the sages of Hinduism. A religion has a system. Theyget the basic from Godf, and improvise, only to find that one contradicts another. That's how fights begin.

    Good God, how striving are they to enclose You in their foolish dogmas and beliefs! What are youy, a bottle of water to be kept in a container? You are an Ocean. Nothing can contain you.

    Will You, O merciful one, torture people in fires eternally, or be partial to only one race? Should many people rot in hell eternally, for not knowuing you al least once?

    You know what is the Devil? Avarice. Lust ( very very intensed lust,ok?) Many of the relgious authorities are worshipping sin.The fact that relgion has a man-made"authority" shows its dicredibility.
    But nay! It is not the God we deny, but the foolish feeligs and emotions we ascribe the One Beyond, to. God, being omniscient and omnipotent, cannot feel emtions, because, if you know whats, goona happen, can you feel emotion? God can feel surprised and angry, only upon realising a new thing, which contradicts His nature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2005
  16. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,346
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oxford, U.K.
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    If you spend much time with me in the debate forums at all, it doesn't take long for you to realize that I am a Christian. But what's interesting is that Christianity is not really that good a religion for every day life. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, love your enemies, forgive those who persecute you, not really the best survival guide. For instance, do you guys have any idea how many thousands of Christians are martyred each year? But then, Jesus didn't come to make life easier for us; he came to tell us that there is something more to this life and how we can partake in it.
     
  17. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Hmmm... I made an interesting post about "turning cheeks" in another thread of yours. I don't think Jezus meant that, should one kill your mother, offer him to kill your father as well. I think it's more about judging other people, try to understand the misunderstandings. I think it's the basis of Humanism...

    And I'm not at all too sure life is about "survival"; certainly not of individuals. I think that religions, and especially Christianity, are meant to ascend barbarism (being defined as acting from a selfish perspective in stead of investing in humanity to lead a happier life). I think most patriots will recognise the mechanisms...

    As to myself, I'm an aetheistic Humanist, with roots in Christian tradition and values. I trully believe humanity has grown beyond the need of a notion of the presence of a God or diety. In that, I really follow Nietsche; "Gott ist Tot".
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  18. Drac Critius

    Drac Critius Radical Subjectivist

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    Ah, Anduril...but even the bible has been tampered with. The Book of 'Enoch' for example was taken out because it was seen as "unorthodox". Not to mention Reincarnation by hands of Emperor Justinian.

    The Christian bible as I see it is nothing more than broken and censored info. Even some of the original Hebrew texts has been translated wrong, i.e. the red sea was supposed to be the reed sea. Let me also throw in the lack of mentioning Lilith (Adams first wife or the demon queen) in the newly translated bibles such as 'The king James version'.

    So can you really trust it's...wholly babble? ;)

    This is only my opinion,
    DC
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  19. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    hmmm... I think we have some other threads to pull the Bible into doubt. Doing it off as "wholly babble" is too swift of a conclusion, but that's my opinion...

    But, before we descend into discussing the meticulous details of the bible again, I want to point out that this thread is about philosophy not religion. Even if I could prove now no God exists, that wouldn't stop people from using the philosophies found in religion.

    In stead, try to attack others philosophy by defending your own, rather then shooting at whatever is holy to others...
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  20. Drac Critius

    Drac Critius Radical Subjectivist

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    The bible is a philosophy ;)

    ~DC~