Which offered the most protection (roman)

Discussion in 'General Weapons & Armour' started by Soulsmith, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. Soulsmith

    Soulsmith Forging souls anew...

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    Im just wondering which roman armour would be most protective.

    The Lorica Segmentata (the most known one, the armor plates)

    Lorica Hamata (chainmail)

    Lorica Squamata (Scalemail)

    The segmentata looks like it has quite thin plates, which I think wouldn't be too protective against heavier weapons
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2007
  2. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

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    I think that your question isnt right, cuz if you wanna know what armor is the most protective then of course its the plate armor, made of solid plates of steel. Only a bludgeoning weapon such as a warhammer, heavy mace or a flail would make a fair damage to the armor structure. A slashing kind of weapon will barley land scratches on it (of course if the armor is thick enough), Piercing weapons can actually pierce a plate armor, however, it must be a very skilled bowman with a longbow, for longbows release their arrows with such power that it can actually pierce anything (yet again, depends on the material and its congestion). Chain armor weights less than plat and you can probably move more freely with it. I think it can defend good against all types of slashing weapons such as swords and axes. However, its weakness is piercing, a direct blow from a heavy pike or a javelin can easily penetrate it. Scale armor weights less than plate, perhaps a bit more than chain or maybe the same. You can move more freely with it than with plate armor. Perhaps because its made of small joined plates it has a weakness to bludgeoning weapons. Although, it seems to better protect against piercing weapons than chain armor. Now the point in the question is that you want just to stand your ground and be only on the defense? or you want to know whats best suited for battle? Personally, I adore heavy armors so I go with plate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  3. Kill frenzy

    Kill frenzy New Member

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    Again, someone with no idea in the subject rambles on about war.

    If you talking about Roman armour plate armor as in the cuirass or Lorica Segmentata . It wasen't made of steel it was made of soft iron, it was alright but wasen't that hard for a properly trained sword blow to penetrate.

    Chainmail is excellent because slashing weapons can't cut you. But again a sword or axe blow is extremely powerful (Asuming its used by a trained fighter.) so bones can get broken.

    and despite the bullshit theory Aphelion provides- Chainmail is much heavier than the Cuirass. But it is flexible and gives good mobility which is why Germanic and Celtic warriors prefered it.

    Scale mail isnt as flexible but thats part of the trick. Scale mail is good at absorbing blows because when its hit all the scales lock together spreading the impact over a greater area, thus weakening the blow.

    Scale mail is probably the best but the plate is much cheaper and easier to mass produce.
     
  4. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

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    A good laugh...

    You think you know something about weapons and armors... well, maybe not enough.
    Chain Mail weighed about the same as full body plate style. The average weight was about 45 - 55 pounds. However, a well made suit of plate armour was more comfortable to the wearer because it could be more evenly distributed over their body. It was always worn with padding and protective clothing to further protect and insulate from the heat and cold.

    About the scale mail, yes you are right on how it absorbs the hit.. I admit, I was wrong about it. It absorbs the bludgeoning strike in such way.
    Prehaps cuz it absorbs bludgeoning weapons and defends against slashing, it can be called the best of these three..
     
  5. Kill frenzy

    Kill frenzy New Member

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    Have you ever even worn and fought in any kind of armour?

    Get out of here clown. Come back when you know something.
     
  6. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

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    I will bring you info from true sources.. and no I havent fought and havent worn any armors in rl. Because truly real armors cost aalot, and I'm not that of a fanatic to buy them. If you worn some piece of metal, it doesnt mean its genuine, perhaps some modern made stuff which cost merely a 10% of the cost of the real deal. Anyway, I dont have to wear it in order to give you real information about it.. what I've written above about the chain mail and plate is real information.. deal with it.

    P.S. Turning this thread into flaming of each other is really unnecessary.. if you think that I'm so wrong about it and what I write is total bullshit, give me a quote from some trustworthy source, and prove me wrong, unless you agree with me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  7. Kill frenzy

    Kill frenzy New Member

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    Chain mail dosen't cost that much to make.. I know folks who make it all the time. Plate doesn't cost much to make either.

    They both cost heaps to buy. I knew a fellow SCA fighter who paid around $5000 for a suit of plate but could of made it himself. It was extremely well made plate and the guy who made it had alot of skill. And about the fact that a modern made set of armour or weapon isn't a genuine. Genuine in what way? I'm asuming you mean a genuine artifact from a paticular time. Because few people still make their chainmail and other gear the period way.

    You copy and paste info from wikipedia. I've learned and obtained this knowledge by reading about it or actually learning it hands on. Unlike you.. Who thinks that if you go on Wikipedia and copy and paste information with barely even reading it.

    Infact before you started doing that, you just typed complete non-sense about weaponry, armour and martial arts. You clearly had no idea what you were on about.

    This subject is something I somewhat specialize in, I've devoted myself to it. If i don't always copy and paste crap of the net. I'ts probably because I know what I'm talking about and have enough knowledge and confidence to say it without always pasting on something slapped on the net.

    If you would like me to back my arguements up more then I will post links to Wikipedia and such sites more often. But seriously you've said some pretty stupid shit that has clearly showin this isn't your area of expertise. So stop pretending it is and just because you can copy and paste information that you don't understand dosen't mean anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  8. dragonofthepits

    dragonofthepits New Member

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    Ancient Rome was one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, an empire of unified government, and a strong army of superbly well-drilled fighters whose discipline and weapons proved superior to most. A great chapter in mans history and its understanding of warfare in the classical world culminates from the battles fought by the great armies of Rome and the legions of troopers whose loyalty and support gave power to such Generals such as Julius Caesar.
    The main armor of a soldier of this time consisted of a ?Lorica Segmentata?? cuirass whose segmented sections and hinged steel pieces riveted to leather straps afforded maneuverability with the added protection of plate steel. The front was laced to fit. The protection of the head was also vital, and this was accomplished by the wearing of a Roman troopers Helm, providing the needed protection to the head while still allowing for an unobstructed line of sight important in battle. Display strength and honor in your home or business with this museum quality beautifully hand-crafted 18 gauge Roman armour with brass detailing.

    it was the main aroumer of a roman soilder its not going to be really powerfull .the roman chain that stuffs good. wearing leather over the chain was common to. really kill is right for once . i did copy paste this because if i did not you would not belive me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  9. Kill frenzy

    Kill frenzy New Member

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    Roman armour was made of iron.. As was pretty much all of their equippment.
     
  10. Kill frenzy

    Kill frenzy New Member

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    Around 1.5 or 1.6 mm. Which for thickness is pretty decent. Its just that roman armour was made of soft iron. Originally the armour was issued to soldiers as a collection of soft flat plates in which they had to hammer out and put together them selves. It was an excellent system of mass production.
     
  11. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

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    First of all, did I say that this information was from wikipedia????? I think not. Stop saying what you think as though its a "sacred" fact that all must agree with, without any doubt. Secondly, I DO read what I copy and paste here, if I was just randomly copying stuff, it would've really been without any connection to the subject.. I read ALL of the explainations in my source of information and then carefully selecting the right couple of sentences which will back my opinion! If you think that is stupid.. I'm sorry to tell you but you are damn wrong! cuz every kid could say: "I'm a specialist in armor and weapons and whatever, I know more than anyone and what you say is pure bullshit..." I however, didnt say that, and I didnt contradict much your opinion about the armors, I even admited where I was wrong.. but you were wrong about the chain mail too.. and you still keep flaming me as though you know something about my source of information. I've already told you, no offence man, but I think that saying: "I expertise in this field and you arent so better shut up" isnt nearly enough to back up your opinion.. In case you didnt understand me, reread my second post to this thread.

    And now some info about Full Plate Armour:

    Plate armour protecting the chest and the lower limbs was used by the ancient Greeks and Romans, but it fell into disuse after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Single plates of metal armour were again used from the late 13th century on, to protect joints and shins, and these were worn over a full chain mail haubergeon. By the end of the 14th century, larger and complete full plates of armour had been developed.

    Full plate armour was very expensive to produce and remained therefore restricted to the upper strata of society, and lavishly decorated suits of armour remained the fashion with 17th century nobles and generals, long after they had ceased to be militarily useful due to the introduction of firearms in the battlefield. Reduced plate armour, typically consisting of a breastplate, a burgonet, morion or cabasset and gauntlets, however, also became popular among 16th century mercenaries. From the 15th century on, armour specifically designed for jousting (rather than for battle) and parade armour also became popular. Many of the latter were decorated with biblical or mythological motifs.

    Plate armour is virtually sword-proof. It also protects the wearer well against spear or pike thrusts and provides decent defense against blunt trauma. The evolution of plate armour also triggered developments in the design of offensive weapons. While this armour was effective against cuts or blows, their weak points could be exploited by long tapered swords or other weapons designed for the purpose, such as poleaxes and halberds. The effect of arrows and bolts is still a point of contention in regards to plate armour. Some argue that longbows and/or crossbows could regularly pierce plate armour and some contend that they could do so only rarely. The various flutings on the armour are not only decorations, but they reinforce the plate against bending under blunt impact and can cause any strike by a thrusting weapon that grazes the armour, rather than hit squarely, to glance off the surface of the plate and be less likely to slide into a more vulnerable joint.

    Some info about the Chain Mail:

    Chain mail armor was used very extensively throughout the medieval times. It consisted of thousands of riveted iron rings to form a mesh. The chain mesh was then crafted into relatively light protective garments such as shirts or leggings. A chain mail shirt was called a hauberk or byrnie, while mail leggings for the lower legs and feet were called the chausses. Hauberks and chausses were made at varying lengths depending on how much weight the warrior could carry for protection. Usually heavy padding was worn underneath chain mail armor to prevent painful chafing and absorb the shock of blows taken in battle. This padding was called the gambeson or aketon. Gambesons were simply tunics packed with wool and were used early in the Middle Ages. The aketons worn later on were padded garments that were lighter than gambesons.

    Other parts of chain mail armor that were later developments were the coif, aventail, and gauntlets. The coif and aventail are essentially the same thing except for one difference. A coif is a chain mail hood that protected the head and neck. The aventail was a later improvement on the coif where chain mail was attached to a helmet and allowed to drape over the shoulders to protect the upper head area. Gauntlets for chain mail were mainly iron mesh mittens to protect the hands.

    The main use of chain mail was to protect warriors from sword wounds in battle. The sword had been the primary weapon for thousands of years and chain mail was designed to counter its effectiveness. All but the most direct strikes by edged weapons simply glanced off of chain mail armor. It was only later when piercing and bludgeoning weapons became widely used that plate armor became essential.

    Now, after reading all this, you may tell me where I was wrong? didnt I say in my first post that chainmails protected from slashing types of weapons and had weakenes to piercing??! Didnt I say that arrows can penetrate full plate armor and bludgeoning weapons can cause a decent damage to the full plate??

    Have a good day.
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    You better watch your mouth kid and stop sending everyone stupid PMs ok?You're irritating many people from what I know.Aphelion replied to you perfectly,take that into consideration.