Where's Aragorn?

Discussion in 'Books' started by Mac, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    I did a search (as best as a newbie knows how, anyway) and didn't see this thread. So here goes...

    Why didn't Aragorn go to the Grey Havens to see Gandalf, Bilbo, Frodo, Elrond et al off? The obvious answer is, "He is the King over Middle Earth. He has bigger fish to fry." But this doesn't satisfy.

    1) Frodo's success in detroying the Ring is the reason Aragorn was able to become King.
    2) Gandalf was his life-long friend, confidant, advisor and supporter.
    3) Elrond is his father-in-law.
    4) Surely after generations of Ruling Stewards, Faramir is able to rule the land in the Kin's absence for a few months.
    5) He will never see any of them again, at least in Middle Earth.

    OK, I know that we already had the "many partings" and it might seem redundant, but I still wonder, "Where's Aragorn?"

    __________________________________
    Mac
     
  2. Feanor

    Feanor New Member

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    maybe he didnt know when they were leaving.
     
  3. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    Respectfully, I find that to be even more implausible than he was too busy with other things.

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  4. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Like Feanor said, maybe he just wasn't informed. That would not be his fault.

    Or from a farther point of view, maybe JRRT didn't think of this fault, although I know this reason hardly satifies...
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Sam did not know Frodo was leaving until they were on their way, I don't think that these things were publicly announced.
     
  6. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Very true, Turin. Plus, Aragorn probably had a pretty good idea that Galadriel and Gandalf would be leaving soon, and I kind of got the impression that most of them thought the parting was pretty permanent when they parted in the "Many Partings" chapter. Thus, Aragorn knew they would be leaving, but not exactly when. Especially because when Arwen parted with her father, they knew it was the last time they would see each other, but Elrond didn't leave right away.
     
  7. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    Well, I think Sam didn't know because he didn't want to know. In other words, he knew it was coming, but blocked it from his mind. It was topo painful to think of his Master gone forever.

    My opinion is that the King knows pretty much everything that's happening in Middle Earth, ESPECIALLY the comings and GOINGS of the most important people of the Third Age. It was not a secret to him.

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  8. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Not sure if you know this (and I doubt it changes anything about your point), but as for Sam it was not going to be forever, just several decades.

    Things could still happen before the news of it reached Aragorn. I am sure the fastest the news could travel across Middle Earth would be at least a couple days.
     
  9. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    As for Sam's journey across the Sea, the direct quote from Frodo is, "Your time may come." [emphasis added] LOTR: ROTK p. 382 But that's another thread.

    Gandalf could have summoned Gwaihir to bear the news to Aragorn. Also, I have no doubt that there was some kind of communication via telepathy or something between Elrond and Arwen - or even between Elrond and Aragorn for that matter. After all, Aragorn was more than just a mortal man. Certainly the Elves could do it. And there is the passage where Galadriel, Celeborn and Gandalf "converse" long into the night in this manner. LOTR:ROTK p. 325-26

    As yet unconvinced, but enjoying the debate!

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    Mac
     
  10. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Well as for that, I can think of no retaliation comment. ;)

    As for this:
    I am pretty sure its in appendixes. If not their it is somewhere else, I am certain I have read it (in other places than RotK). It's also stated on EoA, and they have pretty reliable information.
     
  11. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I think there is alot of speculation in there. It was obvious that Elrond was bitter at leaving his daughter, why assume that he would communicate with her about his leaving. As for Gandalf hitching a ride with an eagle to let Aragorn know . . . that responsibility would not fall on Aragorn.

    I hold to the belief that it was somewhat of a secret. Think of how many enemies Elrond must have made over the years. Would he want everyone to know when he would be vulnerable?
     
  12. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Okay, assuming that Mac's point is correct and that Aragorn did know that they were leaving. Why would he come? He'd already said his good-byes, and it would be incredibly painful for him and Arwen. They would probably want to move past it and enjoy the time they had together. Maybe Gandlaf let Aragorn know they would be leaving, but why would he have to come?
     
  13. Strider

    Strider Eccentric

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    I could see them not showing up. As stated in the book the last conversation between Arwen and Elrond was a bitter one so they probably said there last goodbyes there...why cause emotions to stir again.
     
  14. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    Let's define bitter. My opinion would be it means hard and painful, as in "This is a bitter pill to swallow." I think it does NOT mean they spoke harsh words to each other and parted with unresolved conflict between them (aside from the conflict of not wanting to be separated for eternity).

    Secondly, I didn't begin this thread by asking, "Where's Arwen?" Frankly, I wouldn't expect Arwen to be there. Unlike PJ, I think Arwen is a minor character in LOTR and should have remained so in the movies. Regardless, I would expect her final words with daddy Elrond to be just that - final. They would be reluctant to drag it out by another parting, and rightly so.

    Aragorn would not HAVE to come, but I think he would want to be there. See my reasons in the original post.

    I disagree with the characterization of Elrond et al as vulnerable to attack while on their way to the Havens. While I'm sure they didn't put a news brief in the Bree Gazette, I doubt they went to great pains to keep their departure a secret. Additionally, going to the Havens didn't render them impotent. I'm sure the company could have kicked some major butt if needed.

    I don't understand the point on the Gwaihir-Gandalf-Aragorn responsibility reply.

    Thanks to all for discussing this. I'm really enjoying it.

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    Mac
     
  15. Strider

    Strider Eccentric

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    Aragorn had said his goodbyes though...when they first left Gondor he rode part way back with them and said this would be the last time they would meet. I can't remember all who was there, I think just the fellowship, but he still made his final goodbyes there.
     
  16. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    well, with Gandalf, elrond and galadriel we have three of the most powerful persons in middle-earth I doubt they were in any danger
    whatsoever. I also think that the road from rivendell to the grey havens was a safe one aftr the war of the ring, the war didn't really
    come to eriador in the first place. I figure that after the fall of sauron, any random orc around would keep away from rivendell because it was the bastion of a few of the most powerfull people in middle-earth.

    and although arwen wasn't one of the bigger characters in the book
    it were still her father and grandmother who were leaving forever.
    So I think her being a minor character in the books isn't an explanation for her not being there.

    I think they where not there just because they already said their
    goodbyes, plain and simple.
     
  17. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    I didn't really mean to bring up the issue of whether Arwen was there or not, but the point I was trying (apparently unsuccessfully ;) ) was that if Aragorn went, it would just bring up the issue again. Arwen wouldn't have to go, but she would obviously be thinking about it. But enough of her.

    So whether he knew or not, there was no reason for him to be there.
     
  18. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    good idea, nice weather though, eh?
     
  19. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    Well there's always the practical answer, it was a really frekin' long way from Gondor to the Havens. I mean sheesh all the way across the stinkin' continent, over mountains, through forests. I wouldn't want to make that trip... I am in all ways being serious, yes there were probably some emotional conflicts but seriously riding all that way and back ain't easy man...
     
  20. ElvishTwin

    ElvishTwin Left-handed Scribe

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    I don't really know. Perhaps this would be too emotional for him. After all, he wouldn't be seeing any of them anymore, and they were all very close to him. It's like the quote: Parting is such sweet sorrow. Perhaps he couldn't make the journey, for some reason or another. This is just some of my pathetic reasoning and trying to see deeper into the character of Aragorn, but you can take it as an idea. :)

    :dragon: