Where do you think Demandred is?

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by Unraveller, Aug 22, 2004.

  1. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    His base of power I mean, not right now. The other FS have all attached themselves to/replaced/usurped people in powerful positions, kings, lords, relatives-of-kings, advisors etc. Has Demandred gone a different path like Lanfear and Asmodean? IIRC RJ said in an interview that we haven't seen Demandred's alter-ego in the books yet but where do you think he is? With the Sea Folk? The Borderlanders? Shara?

    There are a couple of bands running 'round without affiliated leaders or leaders we know are/aren't good/bad.

    The Dragonsworn. Following Masema's descent into madness through the books I've come to the conclusion that there's something very fishy going on. Granted he could just be going nuts but I think the paralles between him and Fain are too pronounced. Demandred could be paying him visits, or somewhere in his entourage, and gradually corrupting him.

    The Borderlanders. What are they doing? Why did they leave the Blightborder? Is it really because they want to see Rand for themselves? Is it the Patern weaving the bulk of their armies to safety before the Trolloc hordes pour out of the Blight so they can join Rand's forces at TG and reclaim their lands? Or is it a subtle FS plot to open the Blightborder?

    The Shaido. Naah.

    The Whitecloaks. A base of power in many lands. We've seen several high-level DFs but that doesn't mean Demandred's not hiding in the ranks, remember Mesaana in the Tower, she let Alviarin take the Keeper's stole preferring to keep in the background. Besides, I think he'd like the uniform.

    Any others I've missed?
     
  2. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    The Black Tower, obvious it may be, but who would really notice a male channeler there. And even if he doesn't visit the Tower itself, we definently know he's giving orders to Taim's four - with or without the knowledge of Taim I don't know. And, something else, remember that Graendal said something like "the South had Demandred's mark all over it."

    I like your point on the Whitecloaks however, Demandred could easily turn these guys against the Dragon - they already hate channelers, and there are a number of high-level Darkfriends in their ranks. Plus, other Forsaken have taken the White Tower, the Seanchan (if Semirhage is indeed Anath) and the Black Tower is full of Darkfriends, why would they leave a massive army and power base like the Children of the Light free from this ? They'd definently be a worthwhile target for any Forsaken.

    The again, Demandred could just be hiding in the shadows, Ive got a feeling him and Moridin are gonna be the last two standing at Tarmon Gai'don. Good post by the way, I'd like to see what others think on this.
     
  3. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I don't think he's in the Black Tower, they already had their resident FS, Osan'gar. Unless he was sent there to keep an eye on Demmy, or misdirect our attention. Besides, the BT wasn't established when the FS were freed and they all seem to have moved very quickly in establishing their bases. Osan'gar was sent there when he was given a new body, a conveniently timed event.

    I'm torn between the Dragonsworn and Whitecloaks, I feel there's something more to Masema's madness and I can't believe the FS would leave out the Whitecloaks when they've covered nearly every armed force of any strength in Randland. Of course Moridin could be with Masema, he turned into 'The Prophet' not long after Falme and came to into power just when Morry would have been walking the world again....
     
  4. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I don't think the Dragonsworn is a possibility, simply because they do not partake of the luxuries the FS are accustomed to. The whitecloaks is a good guess though, I somehow doubt the BT. I wonder if he's among those opposing Rand in Tear/Caheiran(sp?)
     
  5. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    They have access to the luxuries though... How hard do you think it would be for a FS to get themself declared 'Keeper of the Heresies'? They could spend all day basking in a palace and let everyone believe that they are destroying or selling the things.

    Tear/Cairhein rebels are a possibility but we need to consider the time-line, they didn't band together in force until when? LoC? They could be, Demandred's definitely up to several things in that book so he's one of the chief candidates to be guiding/egging them on. Could be Moridin though, that's right about when he appeared.
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Hmm, good points. I'd say that the Whitecloaks are the most likely, simply because if noones there, its a wasted oppurtunity, the Borderlanders however have got me stumped, what exactly are they planning, and with such a large force ? It could be a set up, as Unraveller suggested, to open the Blight border just in time for Tarmon Gai'don, but again, this is easily made redundant by Travelling.

    My guess is on the Whitecloaks, or the Black Tower.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Well I like to look at it like this. The forsaken were strategically placed.

    Tear:Be'lal
    Illian:Sammael
    Andor: Rahvin
    Tar Valon:Messanah
    Cahieren:They were in or on the brink of civil war since the start of the series, so why would a FS be interested in a struggling nation.
    Likewise, most of the nations to the west of RandLand are experiencing similar unrest due to a number of things, not the least of wich has been the armies of dragonsword that appeared after the whole Falme debacle. The four borderland countries I think are off of my list, for 2 reasons. 1) There aren't enough forsaken left to control all four independantly. 2) I think that the borderlanders are a bit more cynical in general compared to those in the south who think that Trollocs are a fairy tale. I don't think they would be so easily manipulated.

    That pretty much sums up sums up the more powerful nations, wich leave the Whitecloaks, the Seanchan, and the Black Tower as the forces that could shift the balance of power.

    Ohh, one more thing. There have been references to when the FS were freed. Some were apparently traped deeper than others so I think that they did not all reappear at once.
     
  8. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    A couple of points:

    Graendal's in Arad Domon, I'm fairly sure she caused of all the turmoil there but we can't be sure, I don't think it was that stable to start with.

    Moghedien posed as a servant in the Panarch's Palace.

    We're fairly sure Anath is Semirhage, that covers the Seanchan

    Osan'gar was in the Black Tower. Some say the fact that he exposed himself/ran away proves that there's another FS in the BT though

    Only really leaves the Whitecloaks.
     
  9. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Well, we've figured it out then havent we ? ;)
     
  10. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    D'oh, just realised, there's still the Sea Folk, Shara and a couple of others we haven't considered yet.

    Still, I think the Whitecloaks are the most likely.
     
  11. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    RJ said that Shara and the Land Of Madman will never come in to the story, so there's no reason for Demandred to be there, although there has been rumour of riots, etc over there, so who knows ? And the Sea Folk seem to have an uneasy alliance with the White Tower.
     
  12. darkonesluck

    darkonesluck New Member

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    Actually I remember RJ saying somwhere in some interview that it is possible for some of the events of the future story to take place on the Isle of Madmen but he doesn't know if he will or not. But I couldn't imagine the Madmen coming to take a hand in the Last Battle. Also, when the taint was cleansed there was something said on Tremalking about such-and-such a time beginning (can't remember really) but again, I don't really see that being a huge factor, if any in the Las Battle.

    Also, doesn't Graendel have something to do with Shaara? She has taken some of her slaves from there I believe if I remember correctly.

    Good posts everyone.
     
  13. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Right, he said there were some things that have to happen that he COULD set on the Isle of Madmen but hadn't decided yet. Therefore, Demmy ain't there. Wasn't really in the running anyway.

    I think it was the Time of Illusions that was spoken about with reference to Tremalking but I don't have the quote to hand.

    Graendal had two slaves from Shara, I think only because they were the rulers of their land and it amuses her to have lords and ladies as servants, could also be to throw Shara into chaos and keep it out of current events and TG.
     
  14. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I think that Tremalking was mentioned around the events of the cleansing because the female sa'angreal that was used is there.
     
  15. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Yup, Alviarin went there to have a look and commented that something strange is happening there, they were calling it the end of the Time of Illusions. It had been hypothesized that this could be the KoD 'how horrible' event, the whole population of Tremalking going mad/dying/mutating because of the Cleansing.
     
  16. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I never like the Sea Folk anyway. :D
     
  17. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Hah, me either. Especially the bloody women ! Mutations because of the Cleansing, Unraveller ? Thats a very odd theory, got any strong ideas/proof on this ? It is kind of funny though.
     
  18. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    In Alviarin's POV when she returns to the Tower and meets Zemaile (one of the few Sea Folk AS) she thinks;

    "She almost wanted to tell Zemaille what was happening on Tremalking, just to see whether the woman would flinch",

    that may refer to the Seanchan occupation but that's been going on for a while. Alviarin's just come from there after the Cleansing. Remember, the female Choedan Kal statue is on Tremalking. The amount of power going through, coupled with the fact that the access key melted, lends weight to the fact that something '*gasp* how horrible' could be happening. There are more quotes about the Time of Illusions and Tremalking but I can't put my finger on them right now, can't access the WOT Encyclopedia. Anyone else having trouble with it?