What the hell is wrong with Russia!?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    I'd like to see evidence of NATO or the USA supporting Assad because frankly it seems in their best interests to invade and replace Asasd with a puppet.


    Just because they're not the worst doesn't mean they aren't bad. Nobody is as bad as Genghis Khan.

    But they get shot if they peacefully protest the Assad regime and call for social change? That isn't admirable at all.


    No some of them are Islamic extremists trying to gain power from a potential regime change, like what happened in Egypt, but some of them are legitimate freedom fighters who should be supported. Hopefully they won't make the same mistake the revolutionaries in Egypt made when they trusted the extremists.

    BTW no hard feelings, I may disagree with you but I respect your right to a different opinion than me.
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I didn't mean that NATO is helping Assad,I meant that USA and NATO act more "i don't give a dime" than Putin.And USA has showed that attitude to the world a lot of times since the end of the Cold War.They decide on their own and attack no matter what.

    Assad didn't give the order for people to be shot or killed.Many soldiers acted brutally but there is a lot of propaganda concerning this "Arab Spring" that you have to be careful of.

    The FSA and the other rebel groups are nothing but barbaric,evil,rotten gangsters,terrorists and murderers.I can link you a series of videos that they themselves shoot and circulate on the internet where you can see them execute people while shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and "Hamdullilah!"

    They killed the son of the Grand Muffti of Syria.They abducted and murdered a Greek Orthodox Arab priest.They murdered a Palestinian actor.
    Do you want to know the FSA's latest actions?They issued a ban on women driving and they released a video where they declare that the names of the parents and relatives of Syrian Army soldiers will be given to FSA checkpoints and they will execute the parents of soldiers that are still serving in the army with NO EXCUSES!

    Apart from that you should know that Assad enjoys support from a large part of the Syrian people,Lebanese people,a part of the Palestinians in Syria and of course Iran.And I have a Syrian flag on my wall right now although at first I thought this revolution was just and for the good of the people.But it's not.It's the destruction of Syria and Turkey,Saudi Arabia and Qatar are providing weapons,bases and help to the rebels.
     
  3. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    I guess that's true. Which part of Putin's "I don't care" attitude do you find admirable.

    Propaganda from both sides. MANY soldiers acted brutally. So many that it's not a coincidence and that it must have come from a higher authority. It's like the allegations of disproportionate force used by the IDF in Gaza. It happens so much that the Israeli military must be responsible.

    I'd like to see those links yes, because these claims seem highly exaggerated. Where did you hear about the killings of Syrian Army relatives?

    I know a guy who used to live in Syria and whos family lived there until 2 or 3 months ago, and from him it sounds like Assad has anything but the support of the majority of the Syrian population. And the support of Iran doesn't give you any credibility.
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I have a friend too who is from Aleppo but has been studying in Greece and he is very pro-FSA.We don't talk anymore.But on the internet I met so many Syrians who are Pro-Assad and I've seen so many videos of Pro-Assad Syrians inside Syria AND in other countries.Alawites,Christians,Shia=Their majority is pro-Assad.
    Sunnis=Some of them are Pro-Assad.
    Palestinian Syrians=Parts of them are Pro-Assad.
     
  5. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Did you get to see the links before...someone delete them?
     
  6. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    How does the date have anything to do with trying to force your opinion on a matter on everyone else? Some people don't like the idea of homosexuality for whatever reason, expecting them to follow your ideals and ostracizing them if they don't really isn't any better than them doing the same to you.
     
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  7. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Russia's just trying to resist Western (American?) cultural influence. Though they seem to be failing, given the number of McDonalds and Coca-Colas being consumed there.
    They're still the ones with the strongest resistance movement on the planet, I think. And the best chance of victory, however slim it may be.
    The homosexual issue is widely inflated by the Western leftist, making an issue of low relevance almost central to their political agenda. Instead of the social and economic issues which are at the moment the only relevant thing, or better put - the most important issue of any country and its people as a whole, while the homosexual issue only targets a fairly small percentage of the population, but it's presented as extremely important.
    Hence, Russia's alright. I don't agree with many particular policies, but they're the best we have. In my opinion, of course :)
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I posted this on my Facebook profile too.If you are wonderig about what is Russia or...like Crouton asked "what the heck is wrong with Russia?" this article might enlighten you a bit.It's not big,it's easy to read and perhaps you will understand a few things about...what Russia really is.

    http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/russiarus.htm
     
  9. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Paganism through humanism? That is absolute garbage! The last thing a humanist would do is demand a human sacrifice! The person who wrote this is liberally using the word paganism in a slanderous way that greatly offends me. I could hardly wade past calling humanism something that would cause people to sacrifice other humans like pagans to read the rest.

    Andrew Phillips has a twisted tunnel vision of reality if he really believes what he wrote.
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Relax Rambo.Paganism doesn't necessarily have to mean human sacrifices and ancient rites.Paganism through humanism is something like a new order's godless society that is slowly being enforced in the entire world.Little by little.

    And many idelogies talk about humanism without really wanting to help humans.Take communism for example.It was all about materialism and helping man,but instead it was a system to oppress people and keep them under a leash of miserable life of working for a few pennies.
     
  11. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    That wasn't communism - that's not even part of communist theory. That is a backlash of a result of the fact that communism wasn't correctly used and only applied in part (some people are more equal than others) to the population in order to keep them oppressed. In fact many forms of subjugation work via oppression, its a very simplistic method of control and isn't linked to any specific religion or theory of rulership - although some forms promote it more easily than others.
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Wait a minute....communism cannot actually work because in every single country it was imposed it ruined those countries or the people living in these countries.USSR,China,North Korea,Vietnam,Cambodia,Laos,Albania,Poland,Czechoslovakia,East Germany,Hungary,Bulgaria,Mongolia....the millions of dead and imprisoned are proof that it's a brutal,godless and vain system.I didn't include Yugoslavia because partially,just partially communism worked at a point there but again with lots of deaths,imprisonments and poverty.
     
  13. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    There is a difference between not "liking the idea of homosexuality" and being outright offensive and rude to basically millions of people in the world who are homosexual. Imagine if a black person performed and they said they didn't want African American influence on their children. That would be terribly racist, just as this is terribly homophobic and incorrect. It's not about forcing my opinion on other people, this is about right and wrong and human morals.
     
  14. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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  15. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I would argue that the greater reason communism failed in many of those listed countries is because it was brought in via revolution, often military backed revolution. As a result the people who ended up in charge were not necessarily politicians but generals, or were more general than politician. In such a highly charged atmosphere of change and with new leaders who had little to no established power save brute force I suspect many different forms of new leadership would potentially suffer.

    Communism does have the added downside that it basically ends up splitting a country into two parts - the masses and the upper classes. This does lead to a problem because you then lack a balancing middle class to bridge the gap. In theory the upper class shouldn't exist at all; but humanity generally refuses to actually follow the concept of communism into its pure form. In short the theory is defeated by the reality.

    Also lets not forget that in practice communism isn't too different to a monarchy in its nature of how you've one person on the top in charge. In fact if you look back in history many monarchs did similar to communism in enforcing hard and brutal regimes as a method of enforcing their control over a newly taken country. In the end the primary failing wasn't so much the theory it was the people that got into power and rule the countries.
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I can understand the "no blacks" angle somewhat.
    It's a viewpoint you can hear from many people of older generations who wish to preserve a country as its people as opposed to a country integrated with other peoples from other countries. It's an attempt to preserve the "pure" and often slightly more "romantic" concept of a nation's identity. I tends to spark against people of different colours because skin colour is a very visual and easily seen difference and change, although it should be said its not limited to just colour differences (even in the linked article it also makes note that its not just anti black its specifically aimed more at limiting the range of countries to a select number of "core" nations).

    I can somewhat understand it as a viewpoint and respect it to a degree, though I think that times are changing to the point where its an unpopular and not a right move to make for a national team, which really should reflect the nation as it is not as it is within a dream.

    In the area of sports itself I think there is also some contention on the matter when it comes to purchasing the physical best as well. Teams can fast end up not representing a nation but more representing the bank account of the team itself; with the pressure on to buy up the best players they can from wherever they can.
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    That is a valid and interesting arguement,but what about the example of the Spanish republic in Spain during the 30s?It led to a full scale rebelion(with nationalists on the rebel side this time)because it displeased a lot of people and not just conservatives,monarchists or falangists.But truth is that communism is a more brutal and oppressive regime than most other "democracies" are.Of course we don't count some evil regimes like Saddam's or African dictatorships.
     
  18. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Even though I think it is wrong, I can almost understand the no blacks thing to. If it is SO important to them that they have only a person who is traditionally from that area then fine. But there's no defending the 'no gay' thing. A man could be born, bred and raised a true Russian from St Petersburg and be an amazing football player, but if that man happened to be born gay he's not allowed on the team? That is wrong.
     
  19. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    True, but you're forgetting that other forms of rulership were equally brutal and bloody in the past. Monarchies, dictatorships, heck look at the Romans who had senates and were getting closer to democratic rules and how many countries they invaded, put to the sword and enslaved.
    Communism is just the buzzword of the last century and is fresh in peoples minds. It's also a term that the USA (and to a lesser, but no less important extent many european nations) has used politically as a way to create an "opposing" or "enemy" that the people can fear. This is a backlash of the cold war and the political propaganda put out, much of which has retained a strong position even in modern times.
     
  20. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yes but you'd expect something much more advanced and peaceful from a modern 20th century political system,right?We can't compare them to the Romans or middle-ages principalities.
     
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