What the hell is wrong with Russia!?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Sorry for the harsh thread title, but this is just so insanely ridiculous I can hardly believe it.

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/mado...homosexuality-court-rules-20121123-29x4w.html

    Apparently standing up for equals rights for all people, ahem, or as the Russians would say "promoting perversion 'homosexuality' amongst young people" is worth being sued millions of dollars for. Seriously Russia what the ****? Someone needs to tell this country that it is 2012, they seemed to have missed the memo.

    At least it was dismissed, but it's shocking that it happened at all.
  2. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf random but alternative

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    Russia is not the world's most gay-friendly place. I think I remember a newer law that forbids homosexuality in St. Petersburg.
    But, to be fair, Russia is not alone. I guess that most countries on this planet are still (or again) against homosexuals...

    Concerning Russia though: The only thing that would surprise me would be, if they did something smart and liberal - and that's not gonna happen any time soon.
  3. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    The law doesn't forbid it, it forbids promoting it to young people. Which is ridiculous. No one "promotes" homosexuality, some people just extend acceptance... well, not Russians apparently. I feel sorry for any Russians who live in that country and aren't completely insane and backwards. Living in such a country must be very embarrassing for them.
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I like Russia! :D

    It's becoming a good state again after the bad period of the early and mid-90s! :)
  5. Vsalia

    Vsalia dfm

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    Some countries are just further behind other countries in their social development. At one time, countries like the states, canada, and australia had the same ideas about homosexuality and such. No sense getting enraged about it, they'll eventually come to their senses. It just takes time.
  6. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I think there is a sense in getting enraged about it. It's ridiculous, I know it takes time for some countries to catch up but you wouldn't be saying "there's no sense getting enraged about it" if it was about a country that still used slavery or something like that, you would want to do something about it and see them change.
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Russia also has about half the Neonazis in Europe.About 50,000 or so in Moscow if I am not mistaken.Go figure!Weird stuff.
  8. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I'm not sure if that's helping your cause at all. Your only adding to my original point. Russia is in many ways still stuck in the past when it should be moving forward with the rest of the world.
  9. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    No that's a bad thing about Russia,but Russia has tremendous importance to the world and to the spiritual revival of the Christian faith(that's off topic though).Russia went through a time of economical and moral decay in the late 80s and early 90s but has started becoming the second(or maybe first according to some)world power in the world,they probably need some more time.

    Plus,you can't compare the Russian psyche,the ways and traditions of the Russians with westerners.In many ways they are very different from the westerners and even to some slavic peoples as well.

    For example,it's a fact that Russians as a nation function much better under totalitarian rule,rather than democracy.It's just...not something they are used to.
  10. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I do admit Russia is very different to what I am used to. I've only travelled there once, but the two weeks I spent in St Petersburg and Moscow were almost surreal. It didn't feel like I was in another country, it felt like I was on another planet. Everything was just so different. And I didn't feel safe there. Not even in the day, I just didn't feel safe in the streets. Which was almost exhilarating in a way. If I had the choice to I would go back one day.
  11. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Ideas Man/Bad Ideas Man

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    Aren't quite a few countries passing aggressive anti-homosexuality laws? I forget the name of the country, but one is pushing a law to kill homosexuals if they are tested positive with HIV.

    These are tragic times for our species, we neglect understanding in favor of tradition, and so suffering will be wrought. But culture and tradition are important for the identity of many, often it is all a person really is, pushing back these things is too rattling too their reality.
  12. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Uganda tried to pass a bill that would make it legal to kill homosexuals. It's just, I always thought Russia was better than countries like that. Sure, many third-world countries are still very anti-homosexual and yes, some do want to kill them, I just didn't want to have to compare Russia to that type of third world country like poor African nations. As I already mentioned in this post, I've been to Russia myself once. I've always had a soft spot for it. It just bothers me that such backwards thinking is still happening over there.
  13. Turambar

    Turambar Leaving the Cave Staff Member

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    This suit made no real chance. I'd be surprised if it wasn't created to seek attention - which, apparently, it did. I understand that a proposed law criminalizing gay propaganda was thrown out of the duma in 2009. So, I understand that there was no real legal basis for this law suit against Madonna.

    I think you need to realise about two things regarding Russia, though. The first is that it is a harsh country with a harsh culture and lots of povery and inequality. That spawns a lot of extremist parties and splinter groups, often with militant tendencies. It appears that they have at least some grip on every day life in Russia. The other thing is that, now it is no longer a communist state, the people went back to church. That means the Orthodox Church now has a very big say in things. It appears to me that the church is spreading the idea that a LGBT-tolerant Russia would exist in sin. Therefore, mainstream civilians might push a political agenda against LGBT rights. This, in turn, creates more room for extremist groups to act aggressively against gay people and those siding with them.

    The picture currently emerging from Russia is that the LGBT community is somewhat of a scapegoat, comparable (but not similar) to the anti-Jewish sentiment of a century or so ago. It appears to me that there is this innate urge to outcast significant minorities in Russia, possibly more than elsewhere.
  14. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I really hate religion most days. Everytime I try to be level-headed and accepting of all religions I just read more and more about them which makes me see them as what they appear to be, a plague to this planet. Religion is the root of almost everything bad in this world, and now this? Of course Russia would judge us harshly if religion said to. Humans are really ridiculous a lot of the time. It's hard to believe the same species that invented the car, computers, internet etc also believe in old fairy tales and books which cause them to murder, harm, judge and attack each other for no damn reason.
  15. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    sure you seem to love dictatorships... maybe Greece should join russia, and kazakstan in their eurasian union... and leave euro zone... all the better for euro zone ;)
  16. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Russia is like Greece, and like Uganda which will soon outlaw homosexuality... it's a land of peasants.
    What really makes me sick, is my country gives millions in aid (my tax dollars) to Uganda. That's why I say, let Africa starve to death. As far as Russia goes, no need to waste your breath on them, they aren't even a world player anymore.
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Actually I've heard that too,I mean that there are BIG differences in Russia,on one side total poverty and on the other side newly-rich people.At some parts of Moscow the prices are very low and in other parts ridiculously high.

    It does have a lot of differences from the West.And so many rich Russians come to Greece for vacations bringing so much money.The fall of communism made some people filthy rich and others poorer than what they already were.But little by little the last 5-10 years under Putin the country has been recovering economically,militarily and spiritualy.
  18. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I was there in... 2009 I believe. Some people told us not to speak English in the street in case the Russians thought we were American which wouldn't end well. It was pretty scary. Beautiful architecture though.
  19. Overread

    Overread Wolves RULE! Staff Member

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    Honestly I don't know all that much of Russia - sadly the UK news decides that the USA is far more important than any other country so we tend to hear more about the US than anywhere else overseas!

    From what I know though Russia's primary problems have always been:
    1) Its freaking massive - seriously massive. Which defeats many attempts to invade, but also makes management of the country very difficult

    3) It has a social split with a vast lower class and then an upper class with a much smaller middle class. As a result its much harder to advance up the ladder socially and there is far less of a buffer zone of middle class between your rich and your dirt poor.


    Socially speaking Russia has also been a bit like what we envision China as, that is resistive to western influences and social change; but grudging acceptance in general (from the olders - whilst the younger generations tend to accept more readily). When you combine that with the fact that both Russia and the USA spent decades of campaigning against each other then you can often see that good ideas from either side are rejected by the other simply because of the origin of the idea being "in the enemy camp" mindset.
    I suspect this is why there is resistance against a "western" culture idol performing and the gay angle was just one path that was weakly taken to try and close it down.
  20. Turambar

    Turambar Leaving the Cave Staff Member

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    Someone once said that if you don't understand something, then you're probably not smart enough. It's no reason to blame someone else for that ;)

    Offtopic...


    Hm. Interesting. There has been some danger that Russia would have lost its cultural identity to Western influences. Since it discovered that it has a vast power base in oil and gas exports, I think Russia reinvented itself (or, at least, tried to). There is some Russian pride to be found in the resurgence of the Orthodox Chruch, for instance. And the extremist groups I mentioned earlier definitely have nationalist backgrounds. However, I think that this is more harmful for gay rights than it is for a Madonna concert. I think Russians are generally fine with international stars coming over; as long as they respect Russian culture. Which, clearly, Madonna didn't.

    According to some, at least.
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