What Should "We" Do About ISIS?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by RayCaptain, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    I'm inclined to agree with Foinikas ~ if Syria had not been destabilised by the West ISIS wouldn't have had the base from which to build. Thankfully the UK parliament blocked the government from bombing Syria at the start which also put the US of doing so too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Look,the situation is bad.Very bad. The blame falls on the western States and 3 specific Middle-Eastern countries for the start of this war.Saudi Arabia,Turkey and Qatar.

    Syria wasn't the best democracy.Heck it wasn't a real democracy anyway.But it was one of the safest countries in the Middle-East,a very very beautiful and very popular tourist destinations at least from countries in the region and South-eastern Europe. I've watched travel documentaries about it,I've had friends and people I used to know irl from there when I used to study.

    Basically it was this: As long as you didn't challenge the regime,you could do any stupid thing you wanted.
    Assad had and has a lot of support and that my friends is one of the reasons why the regime didn't collapse from the beginning.

    More than half of the rebels which for the first 2 or 3 years of the war the West was applauding for and telling people they were "moderate rebels that we have to help",have now either joined the IS or the other barbarians of Nusra Front.
    Saudi Arabia and Turkey were protagonists in imbalancing the entire region and causing all this misery to Syria and Iraq with their active involvement. Saudi Arabia,Qatar and Turkey have been the major countries funding,arming and providing aid to anti-Assad groups.

    Assad's regime,the Syrian government as it is,guarantees the religious freedom and tolerance of minorities.I'm not talking about the Kurds who have always been at war with Iraq,Syria and Turkey for their independence.I don't blame them either.

    But Syria has Alawites,Shia,Greek Orthodox Christians,Catholic Christians,Assyrian Christians,Syriac Christians,Armenian Christians...it has Druze and the majority Sunnis. Most of all the above minorities are with the government along with a number of the Sunnis.

    The rest of the Sunnis are with the rebels and jihadis or fled the country.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. rochari

    rochari Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Seems America and Russia have the same strategy. drop a few bombs and try to fight them at arm's length, without wading in and getting bogged down. But without a sizable and viable ground force (Syria's army is battered and Iraq's is often incompetent) it seems ISIS will be around for a while. I doubt they'll make any more real gains, but it will be hard to eradicate them from the countryside and villages they hold.
     
  4. JNK

    JNK King of tards

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,909
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Bern, Switzerland
    Ratings:
    +138 / 4 / -2
    I guess after what happened yesterday, this thread get yet another meaning.... :(

    I stand with France!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIP the victims :(
     
  5. Richard Falken

    Richard Falken The Best Epic Literature Ever Written.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    What We have to do is easy. Don't let our own governments use the excuse of Terrorism to destroy our own civil rights.

    I have located some people on the net who was already advocating for more passive surveiilance, metal detectors everywhere etc. Which is, of course, absurd. All these things build up the Security Theatre, the illusion that security is being achieved, while costing a lot of money to the tax payers, causing great annoyance at security checks and not stoppind the bad guys for a single milisecond. The only place in which I have seen really good security displayed was a nuclear plant in which there was a weapon at nearly every corner (attached to a private security guard). I can guarantee you that no police force is going to be able to reproduce that in the totality of its jurisdiction.

    Terrorists somehow win when you ask your government for protection and let them perform warrantless searchs, free wire-tapping and rampant abuse of the monopoly of armed force. Do you think you have the right not to incriminate yourself like the 5th amendmendt grants? In some European countries that right has started to be erased by the use of clever exceptions.

    I cannot do much to fix any conflict in the middle East from here, but I can try to fix my home. My recommendation to the question "What should we do about ISIS?" is: Not letting paranoia take over us and not letting paranoia take over the government.

    Don't become a prisoner of your mind nor the law.
     
  6. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    I have to agree that increased security at the cost of our freedom isn't what we need. We have to remember that horrific as the events are they are still the actions of an extreme minority - 5 to 8 people carried out these events which when you think on it is a tiny number of people.

    If we lose our freedoms then the terrorist has won because they've caused us to lose something we had and to change our society; furthermore it increases the divide between government and the people as well as the divide between people and the police.

    Certainly there should be precautions but when we lose out freedoms that's the worry; especially since many of those losses won't actually translate to a real world increase in protection. Sure install metal detectors everywhere - there are multiple ways to injure or harm people without needing to carry anything metallic plus it really won't help if you cause your terrorist act outside of the building (say at the entrance where there are lines of people waiting because of the metal detectors and bag searches going on inside the building).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. JNK

    JNK King of tards

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,909
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Bern, Switzerland
    Ratings:
    +138 / 4 / -2
    you both guys want to cure the symptoms, not the disease ....
     
  8. Pinkduckie

    Pinkduckie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Then what do you think we should do? Kill them all???
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    I didn't even really suggest an option to deal with either; I was more expressing my view that however whatever is "dealt with" or cured is done in a way which does not result in the loss of freedoms which we currently enjoy.


    I very much agree that the cause is the best thing to resolve; part of the problem is that the cause is generations of war, combat, power struggles and more. It's very hard to outright cure when there is such a vast history behind it.
     
  10. rochari

    rochari Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    What to do? I've nothing to add but the obvious:

    Keep up military pressure on the terrorists and fighters, and work to resolve the underlying causes to reduce the number of future terrorists. It'll be a long hard road because the region has a lot of problems.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    Last night UK agreed, at the second time of asking, to bomb Syria. Personally I think they'd get better results from bombing social media which IS have used as their propaganda medium. Surely software exists that can scan all new posts/videos for key references and just auto ban/block? Starving home-grown, potential jihadists of the oxygen of IS lies may just make our own cities safer. If the likes of twitter, facebook etc don't play ball block them entirely :)
     
  12. Pinkduckie

    Pinkduckie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    I do believe that software exists, however since Facebook is a private company and not an institution from the government they can't simply block all inappropriate messages.