Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Berserk, Feb 5, 2007.
What did I miss!!!
~Elladan~: Pure genius
I feel like stabbing now.......
*Removes embedded blade(s)*
My profuse apologies ... I just couldn't help myself
Excuse me?????? I most certainly do care aboot who was the best fighter. But then again, I'm not a die-hard Rhaegar fan.
Just had to point out that some girls are interested in fighting XD (haha Emily can back me up here XD)
btw Aweseome song Elladan
I'm also interested in the fighting parts...I was just too busy laughing at Cru and Liadan to point that out last time . But I don't read the books for the hot guys, Berserk.
Only in your opinion, there's nothing saying Robert was the best warrior of his era. He had Barristan's respect, yes, but all that means is that Barristan found him a good fighter or worthy opponent. Not necessarily a great fighter, and not necessarily better than Barristan himself.
Barristan and Robert never fought, so it's impossible to say for sure which one is the better fighter. I give Robert the edge because he managed to beat Rhaegar, and Rhaegar was like Ser Loras and Jaime Lannister combined.
Y'know, Elladan... you're lucky it's your birthday. But still... lmao. Thanks for the laugh.
Quite. I love Rhaegar for all of that, but TBH, if we're talking historical dead characters... I absolutely adore Arthur Dayne. So don't generalize us all, please. Half the time, I make Rhaegar posts just 'cause Crusader hates him...
I'll also back up Senekha. She's DEFINITELY into the fighting. And lmao, Katri... did you just spell that ABOOT?!
Incorrect; it's never stated in any of the books that he was that good. In fact, Barristan specifically said to Dany in SoS when asked about her brother that Rhaegar was a good warrior, but also keep in mind that in the books, when they say that Rhaegar was "peerless", it's usually a Dany PoV and would thus be biased. I sincerely doubt that Rhaegar was the best warrior in all the Seven Kingdoms; that'd probably go to Ser Arthur Dayne.
Elladan your song was pure gold. Just in time for Valentines day for them too.
You, sir, are my hero. :ybounce:
I think everyone's ganging up on us.
Well at least this admission of us'ness is progress of sorts
Anyway back to original post of this thread which so far I've managed to avoid totally...
"Would Robert be able to repel Denerys and her dragons..."
I would say almost definitely not ~ there are already factions within the Kingdoms and Jon Arryn has still been killed after finding that the line of succession was not secure. Jon effectively ran the kingdom for most of Robert's kingship and brokered the peace with Dorne. Ned Stark similarly, as the Kings Hand, was also investigating so it is not unreasonable to presume that Cersei would find some way to get rid of him also ~ so Robert would be down two of his key generals.
Denerys' army would presumably land in the south, with the backing of Dorne. Highgarden's support for Robert would likely prove tenious so the 'breadbasket' of the South is available to Denerys'. In the North the Greyjoys may also prove an issue. If the paternity of Joffrey etc has been called into question then the Lannister's one handed grip on the crown is severed so will they switch sides?
Robert's charisma has taken a nose dive as he felt that Ned Stark was one of the few he could rely ~ hence asking him to be his hand. Any physical fighting skills has diminished at the same rate his waistline has expanded. I see Robert as a more of a bull, overwhelming opponents with brute strength rather than having the finess of a great swordsman.
Tactical genius ~ questionable ~ no commander in chief operates in a vacuum.
Nicely put, Elladan .
As Liadan said, it's unlikely Rhaegar was that good a fighter. Also, if it's impossible to say whether Barristan or Robert is the better fighter, why did you claim Robert 'was clearly the best warrior of his era?'
I, too, really liked Ser Arthur Dayne. He, I think, along with Ser Barristan was definately among the top two or three swordsmen.
In defense of Rhaegar (I know, I can't believe i'm doing it either)...Given Robert's size (he was a tall man, no?) I'd say that a lot of his fighting would stem from taking advantage of this. In the Rhaegar vs Robert fight, the outcome cannot simply determine the better swordsman. The better fighter, perhaps, but skill with the blade, as a Prince such as Rhaegar would have been taught since two hours past birth, is harder to determine.
...I'll be a Sir one day with a nice white belt XD
edit: on the note of "what if robert did not die," I have to state that my opinion is that no, he wouldn't have been able to hold Daenerys back. I mean...she has bloody dragons!!!! There was a reason the Targaryens of old were so powerful. When Dany finally decides to raid Westeros, they don't stand a chance, especially if her dragons had grown.
If Robert lived he wouldn't be able to repel Dany... Even if she hadn't had any dragons...
She has 20000 slaves which names i can't translate and like 100000 ordinary people, at least 10000 of that people would be able to become fine warriors, with armors taken from Meereen.
P.S. IF Dany attacked Westeros, at least 30% of the houses would change their alignment against Robert... and i didn't even mention what would millions of angry peasants do if they found out Dany was coming back... i bet they would take King's Landing for her alone
Agreeing with Elladan's post - except the first bit, of course. Blackness has a point as well.
@ Senekha: Never do that again. Please.
Robert had a lot of height and weight on Rhaegar - Rhaegar may have been a "peerless swordsman", but you can't do much against a big-ass warhammer coming straight for your chest, and your armor's built to repel other swords, not to dance around like a fairy and somehow magically avoid the blow.
That's exactly my point. Rhaegar is built like Barristan Selmy. They were trained in the typical fighting styles of knights, such as with the sword and lance. They are both fighters who rely on agility, rather than brute strength, and yet Robert beat Rhaegar with brute strength, so what makes you think that Barristan Selmy would fair any better? Barristan Selmy can hop around and dance all day, but all it will take is for Robert to land one blow with his war hammer, and Selmy will crumble.
^ Not necessarily ~ in most fighting styles you can use a fighters 'bulk' against them whether it by letting them use their energy by adopting slash and dodge tactics or catching them when their powerful stroke leaves them off-balance ~ the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
The Red Viper tried that approach and still ended up getting his head crushed by Gregor. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. However, the room for error is dramatically less when you're dealing with someone as big and strong as Gregor, or Robert. One hit from guys like that will take a smaller fighter out.
Thats true enough ~ the trick is having the skill not to be hit
This discussion 'brawn vs agility' reminds me of a story about a ghurka (the legendary Nepalise fighters who serve in the British army) and a German soldier in the second world war. The ghurka's close up weapon is the Khukri (sp?) ~ a curved knife. Anyway the saying goes that a bulky german soldier and a ghurka face off for a hand to hand fight. The german swings and lands an almighty blow to the ghurka's face and roars in satisfaction. The ghurka picks himself up nursing his chin but laughs and says "now try shaking your head". The german does so and it falls off The obvious inference being that the ghurka had already completed his (killing) move whilst his opponent was still swinging. I thought I'd share that nugget of information ~ the moral being 'never fight a ghurka, they kick arse'
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