What do you Hate most about Harry Potter?

Discussion in 'Harry Potter' started by Galadriel71, May 27, 2005.

  1. Sorillon

    Sorillon Thousandth Post Thief

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    What do you mean by that? Different authors use different methods of magic all the time.

    Edit: Heh, I'm blind and missed your sig.

    J.K Rowling's system doesn't really resemble anything in the real world.

    As far as I know, that is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  2. rolemaster

    rolemaster Warrior of the Light

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    Being an author, I know that. The problem in the nitty gritty of the story is that it is not just another system she is using. All of the elements of her system support the idea that the "witchcraft" the book implements is a referene to the actual witchcraft of reality. That's a bad door that you open when you link to things like that.

    Now don't get me wrong, Narnia has a witch in it. The thing here is that Narnia keeps the witch on the right side of the line, whereas Potter uses witches to overcome witches. Darkness to fight darkness. No, in case you are wondering, it doesn't work like that.
     
  3. Sorillon

    Sorillon Thousandth Post Thief

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    She isn't using darkness to overcome darkness. The word witchcraft is only used to refer to female wizards, not to a more evil magic.
     
  4. rolemaster

    rolemaster Warrior of the Light

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    The word is not the problem. The word is the foundation of the problem, but not the actual problem. The problem is the way the magic is used. All of it points back to witchcraft of reality. Amulets, charms, crystal balls, divination, palmistry, clairvoyance, alchemy, and necromancy are all themes of witchcraft and the occult, two dangerous themes in the modern day. Few authors actually toy with those two terms, and yet have no real plan (or clue) to use it for what they mean. Some people claim that Rowling is one of these people, who used the word witch for a different meaning, but the way it's used suggests that she knows a little more about the subject than she gives herself credit for.

    If the word were the problem, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings would be in the same boat, whichever that may be. However, Gandalf and the rest of the Istari (minus Saruman), use fantasy magic. Gandalf shied away from the Ring, an amulet, during the story, as well as Saurman's crystal ball (the Palantir). He never used divination or any other way save books and his intuition to fiure things out and gain knowledge. Items don't have power, and items can't do things by themselves, contrary to the occult and witchcraft related beliefs, as well as Potter. Things can be used as "channels" for something, such as Gandalf's staff and Aragorn's sword Narsil, and still be considered as fantasy. It iis all about the use of the word, not the word itself. However, certain terms have such meanings that the author could have just avoided the entire misunderstanding by making up a new word (like Jedi and the Force, in Star Wars' case).
     
  5. Sorillon

    Sorillon Thousandth Post Thief

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    What of the three elven rings? They were items of power, amulets as you call them, and were a force for good.

    Gandalf was given one, Narya, at the time he arrived to help him bring out people's courage. He refused to carry Sauron's ring, the most powerful, because he would be tempted to use it to help, which would come to nothing, given the One Ring's nature. The Palantir were more or less safe until Sauron captured one.
     
  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Oooooh....

    The ways in which I disagree. First of all, the etymology of witch/witchcraft (which JKR doesn't use - she uses wizardry) is very different from wizzard. I'm not too sure where the word "witch" comes from, I'm sure that it isn't Wicca though, and I'm also quite sure that it's a peasant word, yes, as a title for a female involved in occult, that is, non-christian spiritual activities. Wizards find their stem in wise-ard, as Tolkien points out in the Unfinished Tales (and who is to doubt him?). These were not about magic, although they did have some supernatural powers. Gandalf had a magical ring, though. Anyway, the term wizzard would much closer apply to "the learned", such as astrologers, alchemists and, in some cases, demonology-specialists (though not to demonologists).

    Anyway, JKR didn't base the Potter series on traditional - or modern witchcraft. Sure, there are some elements she took, like the brooms and the oddiness of the community. There's a mention of witchburning as well, but... There is actually compelling proof she based her magic on ancient Alchemy (as practiced in the 15-17'th century), making the key word wizard, not witch. To those who pay attention (and I'm sure there are very few of these), she favours quoting great alchemists and astronomers over real witches and witchlore. The whole herbology and alchemy theory is derived from ancient books on alchemy and derivative sources. Other sources include handbooks and tomes on demonology and supernatural creatures, as well as ancient books - even ancient Greek - on astronomy and astrology (which was very close to each other at that time). She must have spent at least a year in the library researching before she strated writing. There is no doubt in my mind that she did know very well what she was talking about.

    Anyway, JKR did write a series of a books loosely based on Witches, though comparing it to witchcraft is completely void in my opinion. And there is very little wrong with that, concidering this is her world. Still, it was a heavily studied world, however you want to put it. She, by the way, chose a familiar word because she wanted to create a parallel world to ours. Using a word we are all familiar with is key to recognising it, as it were.

    But while we are at it, what do you think witchcraft "means", as you put it, rolemaster? What do you identify it with? Are you sure you're not referring to Wicca, and, isn't that something completely different?
     
  7. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I really fail to understand this. Fantasy doest have a way its suppose to be...fantasy is made up...made up from whom-ever thought of something. Using the word witch or witchcraft isnt bad.
    The only thing fantasy is suppose to be is fantasy..a fiction with heavy references to supernatural themes. Its fake, made up, and based sometimes on myths which have been greatly exaggerated. To get upset over a fantasy setting or to not like something because of the choice of fantasy word for magic or supernatural is rather silly.

    Anyway Tur has it the right of it.
     
  8. hendy

    hendy New Member

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    Mee too..

    rolemaster: what real world magic are you talking about, and witchcraft of reality? nonsense!

    And define fantasy magic, as alchemist said "Fantasy doesnt have a way its suppose to be"
    Every fantasy series I've read that involves magic has completely different takes on magic the way its developed and used and what is thought of magicians, witches, sorcerers wizzards, etc
     
  9. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    --- the only character I hate in HP, is Harry himself... Stupid little teeny! :D---
     
  10. Rapstyle

    Rapstyle New Member

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    I hate sometimes stupid Harry's behaviour like with Cho.
     
  11. rolemaster

    rolemaster Warrior of the Light

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    Sorry I haven't been in to reply, but I'll get my response in tomorrow morning :p
     
  12. Lia

    Lia New Member

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    I hate about Harry ... umm ... there are some things
    - Some characters behave childish (yeah, I agree: mostly Harry)
    - The end was clear, you could guess after having read the first book
    - Rowling could have expanded the serious parts of the storys (questions about love etc.)
    - The titles ... they could be far better, and they don't even have to do a lot with the story, at least most of them, for example "The Goblet of Fire"
    - There are cliches, e.g. Dumbledore = Wise and old wizard from that the main character can learn a lot (=Gandalf!)
    - Hermione is called Hermine in Germany :D I hate this :D
     
  13. Erenthiel

    Erenthiel New Member

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    Well, actually, the final duel between Harry and Voldemort, because it was inexistent! I found it too short and there was a LOT of talking.
     
  14. Graft

    Graft Love-tiger

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    Neville Longbottom in the first couple books.
     
  15. Thagryn-Sylrand

    Thagryn-Sylrand Ranger

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    I really hate the scar, well not the scar itself just the shape (lightning) like why would avada kedavra cause a scar that shape? dunno.
     
  16. Graft

    Graft Love-tiger

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    Haha. I never really thought about that.
     
  17. ShadowDragon

    ShadowDragon Slave of Duty/Son of Hell

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    Albus Severus has got tot be the worst name ever. (Even worse than Hermine:) )
     
  18. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    Personally, I think the name 'Harry Potter' is lame . . I mean, come on now . .
     
  19. Prudence Prior

    Prudence Prior New Member

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    Actually, Harry Potter is a classic English name. Jonathan Potter is a famous antiques' dealer in London that specializes in old maps. Nothing JKR wrote is without reference to historical or living 'English' and that's been the appeal all along.


    I hate the last book in its entirety. It's like a fanfiction wherein the author tries to answer all the questions in one final death blow. I hated that she felt compelled to kill everyone senselessly just so no one would go further with their futures. Everything got tied in a neat bow with a present tag that said, "MINE! Hands off."

    The current squabble with the Lexicon is just more of the same hype that the stories have become. She opened the flood gates to fanfiction to become popular and profitable but now she's 'sorry' that she did. God forbid that her characters take on life of their own. Tolkien must be laughing his self silly.
     
  20. thedrizzt7

    thedrizzt7 New Member

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    You know what really grinds my gears?

    The fact that no one in the movies has told on the wizards to the mugals - sry if its spelled wrong :p

    wouldent that be the best weapon vs the wizards? tell the world that they exist to kill humans?
    hahah!

    there must have been more then a few people in that " magical world" wanting revenge, thinking of this exact same thing!
     
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