Weapons and Warfare Book. Concerning Saruman

Discussion in 'J.R.R. Tolkien / Lord of the Rings' started by Timmybaby17, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Timmybaby17

    Timmybaby17 New Member

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    I just got the LOTR Weapons and Warfare book and was reading about Saruman when I found this. "Scholars still disagree over the fate of the White Wizard. Some maintain that instead of falling at Orthanc under Wormtongue's dagger, he was struck down in the Shire; other theorists suggest that after being humbled he was allowed to leave with his life, and he headed east, taking with him new ideas for an industrialized tyranny that were eagerly accepted by the men of that region.'' This is absurd. Everyone knows that Saruman was killed, in the Shire, by Wormtongue. This is a good book, but some of it is pretty ridiculous. I think it must be just from a movie perspective.
     
  2. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    Exactly it is ridulous I waged a huge debate over this entire book a while back in the general book thread. Not only does in contrue wrong information about the characters, but it gives bow poundages that not even superman could draw, Galadhrith bow= 200# draw my @$$.
     
  3. Aragorn Elessar

    Aragorn Elessar Envinyatar

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    That book concerns only the movie continuity... if there is such a thing (borrowing Agent Smith's line)

    For example, regarding the history/story of Anduril, its description is that of the movie, where Aragorn set out with the Fellowship with his strider sword and only to receive the FedEx from Elrond himself later before going to summon the army of the dead, and that Elrond's main intent of giving Aragorn that sword was to summon the army rather than it being an heirloom or whatever.
     
  4. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    can we say *cough,corny change corny cough...*
     
  5. Case

    Case Warg rider of the 4th age

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    I liked the book overall, but I agree the part with Saruman was kinda cheesy.

    The bit talking about the Mouth of Sauron hinted at some....odd....changes as well - perhaps when we see the ROTK:EE we shall find out.
     
  6. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    Guys come on this book was intended for the movie it was based on the movie storyline and changes and verything in the movie secondly the draw weights could be whatever theywanted its a fantasy film but the saruman thing kinda weird
     
  7. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    I agree with Byz. I just got the book, so I haven't had time to more than skim over it, but for the bows, it is fantasy and elves can have whatever strength they want. The Saruman is inaccurate, and rather odd, considering that obviously the authors of the book read LotR. Oh well, the pic's are rather nice to have for reference.
     
  8. Curufeanor

    Curufeanor Master Noldori Elvensmith

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    Saruman dying under Grima's blade ? Falling to his death ? Going into the east to be accepted by some cult ? What a load of Hollywood crap !!!! Damn them for ever saying such a sack of rediculous $hi7 !!!
     
  9. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    Saruman did die under Grima's blade. The main difference is where.
     
  10. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

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    200 pounds is not that impossible; some medieval warbows were in the 180 pound range.

    Rabbe
     
  11. Curufeanor

    Curufeanor Master Noldori Elvensmith

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    oh ya, that is right, Grima cut his throat for making choose between eating Ted Sandyman or starving to death (at least i think it was Ted...).
     
  12. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    No, Grima killed Saruman because he was fed up being his servent, slave is a better word. He did kill Lobo, but I don't think he ate him too.
     
  13. Curufeanor

    Curufeanor Master Noldori Elvensmith

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    Garn, all that 'halfling's leaf' and all those 'shortcuts to mushrooms' i've been taking lately (LOL) !! I must be losing my mind or my memory !!! Lotho it was who Grima killed, but I am sure Saruman mentioned something of Grima eating him, because there wasn't much of anything else to eat. I'd have to double check, but I do believe this time I have remembered correctly. I'll bbl when I have a quote ^_^ !!
     
  14. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    Grima may have eaten him. Saruman hinted at it, because Grima had little to eat as his servant.

    Lotho-I was close
     
  15. Aragorn Elessar

    Aragorn Elessar Envinyatar

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    Lobo, haha, wrong universe :)
    (Lobo, just in case, is from the DC Universe)
     
  16. Curufeanor

    Curufeanor Master Noldori Elvensmith

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    Here is the passage, where the hobbits are trying to decide whether or not Wormtongue has been in real harm to the Fellowship, and whether or not they should allow him to remain in Hobbiton:

    ' "... Worm killed your chief, poor little fellow, your nice little boss. Didn't you Worm? Stabbed him in his sleep, I believe. Buried him, I hope; though Worm has been very hungry lately. No, Worm is not really nice. You had better leave him to me."

    A look of wild hatred came into Wormtongue's red eyes. "You told me to do it; you made me do it," he hissed.

    Saruman laughed. "You do what Sharkey says, always, dont you, Worm? Well now he says: follow!" He kicked Wormtongue in the face as he grovelled, and turned and he made off. But at that something snapped: suddenly Wormtongue rose up, drawing a hidden knife, and then with a snarl like a dog he sprang on Saruman's back, jerked his head back, cut his throat, and with a yell ran off down the lane. Before Frodo could recover or speak a word, three hobbit-bows twanged and Wormtongue fell dead.'
     
  17. Curufeanor

    Curufeanor Master Noldori Elvensmith

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    Now, what I would like to know is, if Saruman never had any interest in the Shire for the movies, why did we see those images of the SOTS in Galadriel's mirror, and what of the pipeweed in the storage in the EE?

    This sucks now that we all know there will be no SOTS... :(
     
  18. LOTR Fan

    LOTR Fan Universals v. Particulars

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    There are many holes in the storyline of the movies, but you have raised a very good point indeed Curufeanor! How did Saruman stock up on all that good "leaf?" Of course from the books he was sending his spies into the Shire for some time and had heard rumor of the ring being located there - but the movies ignore this and leave much to be desired.
     
  19. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    I think the images in the Mirror were (according to the movie) what could and would have happened if Frodo gave up.

    Lobo, Lotho, Lofo, Luke... I don't know anymore.
     
  20. KingUnderTheMountain

    KingUnderTheMountain New Member

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    Ya its to bad there will be no SOTS, but they never say that there wasnt dealings between Isenguard and the Shire