Way to die - execution style?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Turambar, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I found This article on BBC news site. It's an interesting read that begs debate.

    I didn't intend to start a debate on death penalty in general so, I'm going to call you a n00b if you do, for the simple neglect of forgetting to read the initial post.

    Anyway, a couple of questions arise. Assumed that the death penalty is implemented and executed (regardless your stance on that), what do you think the best way of execution is? Is a painless death for the killer indicated in the case of a gruesome murder? What would you choose, if you were on death row? What would you choose if your [close friend/relative] would be gruesomely murdered?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2008
  2. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    From what I have heard of the injections in america, the first drug just renders the person in stat of paralasis - thus rendering them unable to convey the pain that they are in as the other drugs take effect.

    Personally, at the end of the day, you have to view the system for what it is - the ultiamate form of punishment. Now as things go today (UK) if it were brought back, I could see it being a private affair - ie not broadcast over the nation. Thus any symbolic form of execution - such as hanging and watching the person suffer as a part of the deterant for others - is lost. Thus I think some form of leathal injection/forced coma which is painless is the best course. The pain of death is not the punishment - because it is in the end only going to statisfy those who seek the persons death (eg parents on one who was killed by the guilty); thus there is no purpose served in inducing additional suffering to death.

    Further more - in the cases where a mistake is made, it is easier to grive and console family members if the deceased was killed humainly. We have laws for the humain slaughter of animals (supposedly) so why not extend that same right to people?
     
  3. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    That is an excellent point of view. I second that.
     
  4. mz-readaholic

    mz-readaholic Use The Force

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    Something painless, i would say. It is extreme to even have the death penalty, and it wouldn't be something that many people would support, so i assume they would not make a very big deal out of it, but rather do it quietly. And also, for the ones who are greiving the loss of this person (family i spose) they could deal with it better.
     
  5. Ringquelle

    Ringquelle Graveyard Faerie

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    I'd go for the guillotine, however weird that may sound. For school I had to do a project which was about the different kinds of execution methods... and believe me, guillotine is the best. Least likely to go wrong, ends quickly.
     
  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Guillotine - I am yet to hear of a case in which the guillotine failed, come to think of it. However, it's also a gruesome method for the on-lookers. I, for one, would not choose the guillotine, or it's brother, the gallows for the simple reason that, although you're technically dead, you're brains won't stop working for another 30 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on who you ask. Of course, there won't be any way to communicate, as all the facial muscles have been severed (except for the eye and ear neurons) and your respiratory system is er... cut short. Hanging is a bit safer still, if well executed. If the tug on the neck rips the brain stem, death is 100% instantaneous. But if the rope is too short...

    Anyway, I don't have the feeling people read the BBC article entirely, so I'll take the libertry to quote some interesting stuff.

    Now, I can vow for the action of nitrogen or any other inert gas. Breathing such gasses for about three consecutive breaths (if it's pure and doesn't contain oxygen) is guaranteed to knock you out. If you would continue to breath pure nitrogen, death will be certain about 30 seconds later. This is because the pure nitrogen forces oxygen that is still in the blood and lungs out into the pure nitrogen, much in the way osmotic pressure works. There won't be a single molecule of oxygen in your blood before long, suffocating you much faster then when you're merely holding your breath.

    But, as the point has been made, the revenge element, that still seems to be part of the American justice system, is a bit void when dying this way. I am lucky enough never to have been in near such a case, but I can imagine that some people who's well, let's say daughter, got kidnapped, raped and evidently died a gruesome and slow death merely at the pleasure of the whichever sicko who did this, this method simply won't do. If you still miss the picture, think Marc Dutroux. On a sidenote, I think a majority of the Belgians at one point were supporting reinstituting the death penalty for this specific case, to abolish it again once he was executed.

    Ps. Oh, and thanks mubs, but next time let's keep it that way, shall we? I was actually looking forward to calling people nubs on account of not having read the first post :D
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    The problem is that is you let the revenge element into the syetem it soon starts to fall apart; anyone who has been abused or harmed by the selfishness or madness of others has a desire for revenge - a desire to go out like a godlike being and beat/burn/torture the life out of those that crossed them - its is a natural desire in many ways.
    However the whole concept of law enforcement is to remove the personal element and render the case purly academic - thus aiming to show equal rights to both the accused and the victim. Granted that this does lead to problems (insanity pleads and half gaol times) but if you let in the revenge, the system starts to function more like a wild mob = and it does not take long before a mob loses focus and becomes an uncontrolable monster.

    I light of this I think that a humain form of killing is better as it helps to remove the revenge aspect - yes there is still death, but it is less personal. It also (for they are also a victim) helps the friends and family of the guilty deal with thier death; a mob like grusem killing mearly helps to add to their pain and sowes the seeds of hate in them - its a complex line but one that does not need taunting any further.

    In addition, I have also heard that the threat of a death penalty does not reduce a persons chances of commiting a crime - as most criminals do not consider capture to be possible. Thus there is no need to horrifficaly kill a person as a lesson to others, because it is a wasted effort
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2008
  8. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Let the victim (or victim's family) choose from a nice glossy brochure, with optional extras & special offer, combination deals... then make sure you frighten the crap out of the offender by making a few 'trial' runs first, before saying 'only kidding' & returning offender to his/her cell.

    Failing that gas 'em to get over and done with quickly and painlessly :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2008
  9. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    I read somewhere that the injection system used doesnt even meet the standards of care used when putting down animals, so clearly not humane.

    Beyond that i thik ive made my opposition to cpaital punishment clear but Overread made some good points on revenge and the legal system, as pain free as possible would be best, so Tur's nitrogen method I suppse.
     
  10. Tinuviel

    Tinuviel New Member

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    If it were me, I would sign up for the nitrogen method. If I were forced to choose form the original four methods listed- all of which I think are flawed- I think I would choose to hang. Of course, I would hope that they used a proper rope and all.

    I would choose the same method for an offender that had murdered a loved one as well. Revenge is not equal to justice and I would not choose a more painful way for them to die to enact revenge. Personally, I do not feel that I hold the right or power to purposely and intentally inflict pain in the name of justice. That, of course, is supposing I support the death penalty which I will not comment on as 'suggested' in the original post. ;)
     
  11. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Beheading. It's both cheap and quick. Not hanging because too many things can go wrong that make is long and painful.
     
  12. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    REMINDER - this is not the Death Penalthy debate thread. That can be found here:

    http://www.thefantasyforum.com/showthread.php?t=2359

    Any more posts on the death penalty, rather than specific execution methods, will be moved into the debating thread.

    Thanks

    p.s. nitrogen sounds good to me. Euphoria be damned, dead is dead and that's the whole point.
     
  13. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    probally lethal injection.

    sure it could go wrong, but the chances are slim.
     
  14. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Why use unnecessarily expensive and painful methods? Beheading is the way to go.
     
  15. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    because its gorey, mutilating and inefficient?
     
  16. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    beheading is painless though?
     
  17. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    I dn't see how gory or mutilating are important (I'm assuming hat the beheading is done under hospital-like conditions so here is no danger of tranmitting blood diseases), but it's rather a lot more efficient than, say, gas or lethal injection.
     
  18. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    but there are simpler and easier alternatives that are just as painless such as just a simple headshot, what advantages does beheading render?

    And remember theres debate over how long you would stay alive afterwards, whether moments or minutes, is it really painless if its not instantaneous?
     
  19. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    It is still simpler and cheaper than (to whore a couple of examples because I can't be bothered thinking of new ones) gas or lethal injection. About the same expense as a simple operation.

    Kakashi, beheading is considered painless compared to most methods currently in effect, although it's a bit hard to do studies on since the person cannot actually move to indicate pain.


    I don't support shooting for the same reason I don't support hanging -- too much chance of error.

    In a beheading the death is due to oxygen deprivation. This is the same as in hanging, gas, etc., and some kinds of lethal injection that I don't think are in use at the moment (but I haven't actally checked). Ironically all of these methods are much less painful than the standard methods of euthanising comatose patients, which is to let them starve to death. Go figure.
     
  20. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Well it is for the chap with the axe (though if he swings badly, he could hurt himself). As for the person on the chopping board - well assiming that it is a clean cut - there is evidence to support the theory that the head still goes on living for a very shot while afterwards.

    this sounds like a lot of touble to kill some one - as Crusader has pointed out. But I will go further and say that beheading was in its time the height of executions - hanging was more common - to get a beheading you had to be really bad (or unluck( and the greater part of it was the shock strategy. To shock others into obaying the law - take that away with a surgical operation and it loses all its meaning --- all that happens is that the body goes into the ground with the head sown on by the undertaker
     
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