Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Emelie, Feb 25, 2012.
So if you're different you should expect to get bullied, that's a great thing to say. you should tour schools and tell all the kids, "dress the same as the popular kids. do the same things they do. don't be unique or they will hate you." You'd be a great role model.
i was 4'8 up until i was 16, at which point i went from 4'8 92 lb to 5'8 202 lb, doing weights 4 times a week and cardio twice. at which point i started bullying the bullies
Meh that's how things are sadly if you have some sort of imperfection people will jump on the chance to make sure you know about it.
I've learned to ignore it and just accept myself for who I am and everyone eventually realized I didn't give two shits of their opinions.
I knew how to defend myself if it came down to that but I can say I went through most of my life without physical confrontation.
As for it not always being an option - or not one you follow in any case, factoring in anger and such... I did forget about that. I tend to repress anger in general, ignore it, whatever... But when one does lose their temper - apologize. Admit that you were in the wrong. For some people it's hard to get off your high horse (*cough* me *cough*), but if you're wrong you should apologize - own up to your faults... And sometimes an apology can go a long way.
You're such a drama queen.
I'm the guy who gets noticed for all the wrong reasons; I'm usually the most 'different' person in the room.
And I don't bitch about it.
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If you're going to act or look different, well then just do it... and don't whine like a bitch if you get bullied for the trouble. Half the folks in this world are lucky to get a square meal in a day, and I'm supposed to feel bad that some dude playing gothic dress-up princess is being taunted. Life is real.
Sooo... which of the four might you be, Sparrow?
I think people are looking at this from the wrong angle, though. I'm afraid bullying is part of nature. Look at a clutch of chicken, and there'll be one or two which are being bullied their brains (and feathers) out. Same goes for a lot of social animals, including most monkeys. It's called pecking order. It appears that a group must often form a hierarchical structure to which to relate and adhere. The natural outcome is that there is someone at the bottom of that very structure, often being the bullied person. There are several factors that go into determining who will end up at the bottom of the scale. Some can be influenced, others can't. Testosterone levels (in both males and females) seems to work to shift positions, though. However, upsetting the structure can be quite hard.
Luckily, society itself moves in such ways that most people at the bottom of the scales don't actually get bullied because people are able to refrain from such degenerate behavior. Sadly, still a large portion of working environment still sees bullying in some form or other. Bullying, however, almost takes habitual proportions. In just about any underage school environment, a few kids are picked out to be bullied. Especially in the teen years, where personal identity is so important, and children think they can think for themselves, will things turn ugly. The natural breaking system which smooths things out for most adults isn't quite working at that age.
Sooo.. yeah. I'm afraid that we will have to accept that - say - 5% of our youth will be bullied at any given time. It's terrible. It stands to reason to act against it in any meaningful way. Individual bullies certainly need to be punished wherever possible (to set them right for adulthood). But I fear it's futile to rid the world of bullying by royal degree, for instance.
Yeah, I think too much social engineering in this department is almost futile.
In adulthood, bullying is so much more subtle... competition in the workplace comes to mind, and of course intimate relationships sometimes take on dominate and subordinate roles.
there are usually older teens who can befriend and mentor the bullied persons, in my senior yr we had maybe a dozen grade 8 kids who hung around us, knowing we would stomp anyone coming after them. as the group got larger we expanded our area from the "out of bounds" area we occupied to the library as well, we played role playing games there so it seemed natural this area should be annexed. we had a few scuffles still, but its amazing that damaging school buildings by throwing friends through a plate glass door during a wrestling match will increase reputation enough to clear an area of any potential hostile forces.
so my advice is to attach yourself to someone older who doesnt give a shit about bullying. even if you dont befriend them, their presence will stop any would be antagonists, and being seen around them gives you a nice name to toss in when you are confronted
Well that's always one way to go, but not all classes or schools have that. If think of my school and class, we had like 3 people in the entire school that actually actively worked against bullying, and helped or intervened if something happened. And none in our class, which resulted in my best friend getting kicked in the head one day, when she stood up for herself when being bullied. But I guess that kid who kicked was sort of.. not all well in the head.
I myself got beat up a lot, by some idiot that hated me for no reason really, he just decided that I would be his punching bag, but the whole thing stopped when I punched the guy in the nose one day, when I had gotten enough of his bullshit. But I don't really see that we need to take it as far as violence in order to Stop bullying. But sometimes one does wonder. I had a guy always trying to touch me, my breasts my ass and so on, no matter what I said, he just kept going every time he saw me. One day I got enough and kicked him, as hard as I could, right in the nuts. He didn't get up for many, many minutes. But at least he didn't ever touch me again. But it makes me sad to think that for some people it does have to go that far, in order for them to actually back off. Cause it didn't matter what I said or did, what my friends said, what my parents said, what I said to that persons parents... To both examples I gave.
But a good idea is to actually assign older students to the younger ones, it might help. At least if that person does not participate in the bullying against him/her, which also occurs. But that might stop some of it.
the problem with assigning people is that you have someone that doesnt want to do it.
MAYBE assigning a safe area of the school?
in all the schools i have attended there are groups, in my senior yr we had the Jocks, the Goths, the nerds and my group, who basically were rebelling against the teachers, there are sub groups and some get along better than others, we for example, didnt get along with the jocks until i got back from suspension to a meeting with the deputy principal, the coach of the AFL team was waiting in the office, he asked me to join the team as they had skiled players but no enforcers, once i agreed we got along better with the jocks, stopping a lot of the skirmishes. not that this effects all, but just making my point that groups work, as i posted above my group supported grade 8 students, we didnt talk with them much, they were too small to wrestle against, but my joining the AFL team enticed many to try for the junior teams. not many grade 9-11 students will mess with a grade 8 who can call on 80+ older students (training partners and friends and those who u attach to) and it usually only takes 1 noted older kid to say back off or else to stop it
bullies should be killed , chopped up and fed to the homeless.
Freedom of Speech is not Freedom to Offend. If you have something to say then you should say it politely and not assign it to people in a personal manner. Offensive comments directed at individuals or groups of people is bullying, not freedom of speech or freedom of religion.
Then again, freedom of speech goes hand in hand with freedom to ignore. I've had my fair share of bullying directed my way. There are people to go to. Fighting isn't, and never will be the answer, no matter how nasty the bullying or how angry it makes you. Tell a person of authority. Collect proof. If they hit you, it's assault. Report them to the police. It doesn't seem that simple but even the "toughest" kid will sh*t himself/herself after a visit from the police.
Freedom of Speech is actually the Freedom to Offend.
I have no special responsibility to hem in my opinions in order to save the feelings of others.
Some people should be offended, some people seem to be offended by the least little thing.
Now here, I agree with you.
Reporting a bully to the cops may well be the 'right thing to do' , you're right. But I dont care , I'd rather smash in said bully's teeth with a claw hammer . Anyone who targets some poor kid because they're weaker or quiet or different dont deserve shit . **** THEM . Instead of a visit from the police , i'd rather introduce them to a good,hard,brutal smack in the gob . In my humble opnion
Unless things go like they have over here, where the older kids all do everything they can to stay well out of the way of the savage little kids. Seriously, ruptured stomachs, broken ribs, all that from 13yr olds. While the damage only happened in one secondary school, all three ended up with terrified senior students. (Side note: One of the three ended up merging with another, leaving one rough public school and the private school, so all the nasties in the public school couldn't be expelled and ended up being given no more than a 'don't do that again' kind of punishment, so the stuff just keeps happening.)
Before the younger kids got violent all of the schools ran a peer support thing where a few older kids would have a bunch of the little kids to look after that was voluntarily. And it worked pretty well, got them to interact from different groups and whatnot. I volunteered to do it, but got kicked out by the teachers after a day.
Well actually in some countries, the freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend. For example here we have a lot of laws against that. So going up to someone on the street and offend them might actually earn them a visit from the police and a fine. well of course this is depending on what you say... But freedom of speech isn't all that free, i mean, you cant walk around with a swastika patch or something like that. Even though it technically should be a part of "freedom of speech". But since its offensive, its not a part of it.
And the same with other offensive things or words, we have a lot of laws surrounding that. Which you also can question, is there really such a thing as free speech then? if its all regulated by law. But like I've said before, freedom of speech shouldn't be about offending people or being an ass.
And violence should never be the answer or a way to stop bullying or discrimination, like Silvertongue said.
I was at a conference yesterday, concerning the LGBT community (Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender people). Where they showed statistics gotten from research, that for example 65% of the transgender people have some time seriously thought about suicide. It's somewhat lower for the L,G and B though. But still shockingly high. I think that this for a great part is because how we welcome and treat people like this in our society. Of course that's not the only or biggest factor in this. But still an important one. And considering amongst cisgendered teens there is 10% among girls and 5% among boys who think seriously of suicide. They probably have this as a factor as well, not just the LGBT community.
Yeah I don't even know where im going with this except that I believe that some people have trouble handling negative reactions from other people and that might end in something as drastic as suicide, and that is something to think about. It's not that it's something wrong with people like that, some just have a harder time dealing with it, with all the shit society throws at the younger generation these days, no wonder there's an explosion in eatingdisorders, depressions and suicides.
As for school and bullying goes, I believe in starting already as young as in kindergarten, or at least find creative solutions when bullying occurs, and not only take the 'problem' and transfer him/her to another school or making them feel like the bad kids all the time. There are ways for the teachers to work towards solutions. But sometimes they get stuck in rut. And do the same thing over and over again, and they have a negative attitude towards some of the kids, which sort of keeps them in their role as a bully, because that's what's expected of them.
Since being offended is essentially in the eye of the beholder... you don't actually have Freedom of Speech. If your government decides what is offensive and what isn't than your freedoms are at best, superficial. In America, not only can you wear the Nazi swastika, you can organize a parade and march down Main Street if you like. It's not just speech that is protected, freedom of association, assembly, petition, press, all falls under Freedom of Expression. Without Freedom of Expression no other freedom is safe. Not to say that those freedoms haven't been under assault in America, they have and still are corrupted on a regular basis.
But that can't be reason enough to curb free speech and expression in public and private places... for school and the workplace it's a different story where you only have very limited rights of speech and expression. And I'm sure you guys have tons of anti-discrimination laws like we do, so I think at least there is protection under the law for gay people.
Kids grow up quicker these days, that's for certain, and young people are bombarded by such nonsense that my generation never had to contend with... but, I think about my parents and how they grew up during the Great Depression and some fought in a World War, and my great grandparents on my mother's side who had to flee the Ukraine ahead of the Bolshevik Revolution and immigrated to Canada with little more than a suitcase of belongings... and that puts things in perspective. I think compared to my parents I've had it extremely easy, and my daughter has it easier still.
I think it probably comes down to parenting, or the lack there of.
Teachers shouldn't have to raise the children under their care, that's the parent's job.
Well there are always people that will have/had a harder life and especially, like your parents and grandparents. But I also think we need to think about things like, what was hard back then can be easy now, but also vice versa. When for example looking back on many older people here, like my grandfather, he dropped out of school at 14 or something, didn't even finish, what today is mandatory. Got a job right away and could buy a house. Today's young people might have been raised in safe environments (at least in the countries where there's no war) But today, people need to study almost to the age of 30, and then they might still be without a job for some years, and then have a crappy salary and be worked so hard they cant manage it for long. So there will always be positive and negative aspects from every time period. Our young today with media and all is also much more easily influenced and bombarded with messages that make them feel bad in a different way, it may not be starvation or the threat of war. But it's still very much real and serious. One should never diminish another persons feelings.
As for teachers not having to raise our children, that's something I also used to think. But then I started to consider the amount of time kids actually spend in school, kindergarten etc. They're in school most of the time, and when the parents are done working their 40+ hours a week, modern society usually don't have a stay at home parent. and all they want when they come home is a nice family dinner/time. Not lots of fighting and other negative stuff that can come from raising kids. And if the parents don't have the same amount of time raising them and teaching them important values, then it's societies responsibility to help. And school is the perfect place, since we spend at least 10 years in school, and much more in most cases. I just think that a lot of schools neglect or ignore their responsibilities when it comes to bullying and related stuff. Or simply isn't creative enough, they want it to be a certain way, and refuse to change or try new ideas. But as society progresses, the school have to do the same.
And I'm actually surprised you can have a parade with that in the US, if that would happen here, all hell would break loose. Since it's considered to be big deal, you don't go around with that symbol or intent. I mean sure, they can do it in the private of their own home, or go to meetings and stuff. But not parade around however they want, spreading their message which is all about discrimination. We do have a political party that is considered a racist one. But since they claim they're not, and wrap it up in fine words. so they get to stay a political party...
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