Very Interesting

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by Elan Morin Tedronai, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    I was just re-reading good old Winters Heart last night, when i came upon an interesting passage indeed.

    [Wonderful News, Page 315]
    Even so, he [Demandred] wished Semirhage or Mesaana were present. Their alliance was delicate - a simple agreement that they would not turn on one another until the others had been elimated - yet it had held all this time. Working together they had unbalanced opponent after opponent, topping many to their deaths, or even worse.

    Worse than death ? Balefire perhaps ?

    And something else...

    [Wonderful News, Page 318]
    Demandred flinched in spite of himself. That had been the True Power; he had felt nothing....He himself had never used the True Power except at need. Great need.

    A great need like balefiring a traitor in the Caemlyn Palace without wanting any channelers feeling his presence ?

    I think you know what im getting at, so what do you think ?
     
  2. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    ahh, another clue to the Asmodean puzzle, good quotes EMT.
     
  3. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    It Was Slayer. :-d
     
  4. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
  5. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hämeenlinna, Finland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Nah, Lanfear did it... *g*
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    She was dead, and we know from Winters Heart that she was held captive by the Finn's for atleast a little while, so she couldn't have. Personally, i believe either Taim, Greandal or Sammael (and maybe Slayer) did it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2004
  7. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hämeenlinna, Finland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Prove it. :D

    She could have, via a wish.

    Graendal is a close second on my "whodunnit" list too, although she doesn't really fit the "inituitively obvious" criteria, and neither does Sammael or Taim.

    Nothing indicates Asmodean knew Taim, so he's not a very likely suspect.

    Certainly wasn't Slayer (definitely not "inituitively obvious to the most casual observer" at that point, and it is quite possible that Asmodean didn't even know him. Besides, Asmodean could have defended himself against S.)

    Lanfear, on the other hand, has both a motive and the means: Asmodean never told Lanfear of Rand's sleeping with other women. There you have a motive.

    She could have asked the 'Finn to give her a chance to have revenge upon poor Asmodean. It is quite certain that Asmodean was killed by a channeler, likely via balefire, too; he could have slain any non-channeler with relative ease, and the passage "The word still hung in the air when death took him" is quite similar to the description of Be'lal's death ("the word hung in the air for a few seconds after his body disappeared"), which was, incidentally, caused by balefire woven by a female channeler.

    Asmodean is thinking of Lanfear just a moment before his death and reaction ("You? No!") suggests that he was very surprised to see that someone, and that he knew for certain that the someone did not bring him good news... Then, we have blood draining from his face. Ayup, he was scared, all right. *g*

    Plus, unless my memory deceives me, there is no proof that any of the other Forsaken knew where Asmodean was.


    Rabbe
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  8. Loki the Demon

    Loki the Demon "Belgium, Man!"

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Queensland, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Taim, eh? I've heard speculation that Taim is Demandred, but nobody knows for sure. Why do you think it was Taim?
     
  9. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hämeenlinna, Finland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Well... RJ himself said in an interview that the Taimandred theory is false.
     
  10. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    He also said that "Demandred has never POSED as Taim" and since the dscription of Taim and Demandred are quite similiar, isn't it possible he just didn't change his appearance ? I mean, who's gonna know ? Certainly noone from this Age, and it would make sense that Lews Therin goes nuts whenever Taim's around.

    I don't think it could have been Lanfear though, i did for a while, but the fact she was held captive by the Finn's makes it VERY unlikely, and she must have died to be reincarnated as Cyndane, and Asmodean certainly wouldn't have recognised her.

    Remember that questions touching upon the Shadow can have dire consequences, and i imagine one Forsaken wanting to kill another Forsaken is pretty damn shadow-related.
     
  11. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hämeenlinna, Finland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Nope. Demandred did not recognise Flinn in With the Choedan Kal, so I find it a bit unlikely that he is working among the Asha'man. Lews Therin's reactions to Taim could be explained by his rather unpleasant memories about a certain quite taimesque Forsaken...

    However... There was a *very* interesting theory at wotmania some time ago, about how both Taim and Demandred could be Demandred, and still different persons, if the same soul happened to inhabit both bodies.


    Not neccessarily. She could have asked for the 'Finn to temporarily transfer her to the Palace to kill Asmodean, and have had her body changed later via a not-so-very-well-thought-out wish. Or, even if she was Cyndane, she could just have Mask of Mirrors-ed herself to look like Lanfear; after all, she seems to have a flair for the dramatic....

    Technically, Asmodean wasn't a Forsaken anymore - the balefire he took removed his connection with the Dark One.


    Rabbe
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  12. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    I don't know where you got this from. But even if he was Balefired (unproven) he'd still be one of the Forsaken, his ties to the Dark One began 3000 years ago, no one could Balefire that strong, and if they did, it would unravel the pattern.

    And if your talking about when Rand cut Asmodean's black wires, all that did was sever him from the Dark One's protection from the Taint. Not sever him from the Dark One. He did the same to Ishamael (possibly Aginor, i can't remember) either way, they were both re-incarnated, so they are still Forsaken.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  13. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hämeenlinna, Finland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I'm fairly certain the balefire (well... a familiar square hole in the wall, and Asmodean thinking of what had happened to him) is mentioned in his POV following the battle. Rahvin'
    s balefire hit him, and a bit later, Rand balefired Rahvin and brought Asmodean back, if I happen to remember correctly.

    Unless my memory has failed me completely, I think (I can't verify this right now, with no access to the book) Asmodean thinks to himself that his connection with the Dark One was severed after the balefire incident. So, he really did not have any ties to the Shadow anymore.

    Yep.


    Best wishes,
    Rabbe