Vampire VS Warewolf

Discussion in 'Polls' started by The Llama King, Feb 13, 2010.

?

Who would win, A Vampire or a Warewolf?

  1. Vampire

    12 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Warewolf

    18 vote(s)
    60.0%
  1. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    One thing that we're seeing in current vampire culture right now is the fact that vampires don't have to be undead by default. I dunno how you feel towards this trend, but what I'm seeing here is the fact that ppl are focusing solely on the one aspect that defines a vampire. Namely drinking of blood. Interestingly, b/c undead=immortality to the current masses, somehow they manage to bypass the undead factor and evolve everything into a state of immortality. Or at the very least for TB's case, prolonged lifespan albeit it should be said that the so-called vampires in the series shouldn't be viewed as the real type b/c everything happened via a scientific shit happens kinda scenario, which basically goes against the supernatural/fantasy basis where the standard bloodsuckers are conceived. You may think it's wrong, but then again, I'll say it's an alternate take on undeath via the concept of evolving mindset. I do have to say that the whole idea was definitely a deviation from the standard perception of being undead to be one. Whether it's for better or worse will be a matter of opinions I guess.

    And yeah, Slayer is kickass as a vampire. I'm not too sure what qualifies as a twat from the context of your statement tho apart from the possible area of Twlight emo-ness. Pretty much sad to see his character being static in the GG canon tho. You might think otherwise, but I feel that an insight on his character at the very least would be awesome. Hey Sol mother****ing Badguy actually got a good dose of exploration and development as a character, so why not Slayer? As has been proven by the resident GG badass main character, it's possible and okay for badass characters to be explored and developed. -.-

    Now if only Mori can do the same as well for Valkenhayn albeit I'm not too sure if I'll see him morphing into something furry and canine anytime soon in the future BlazBlue story. Rachel's got that characterizing deal since she's being so awesome in balancing badassery with humanity, so given that Valk's one of the 6 Heroes, he should get a relevant deal as well. tbh tho, it seems to me that Mori's got some kind of weird werewolf concept where Valk is concerned. -.-
     
  2. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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    Met, in short, corpses smell, and fifteen-year-old girls don't want boyfriends who smell and whose ... organs ... don't work, so spineless writers reinvented a classic trope to allow the aforementioned adolescent females to have their crushes.

    As for my take on vampires, give me Salem's Lot any day.
     
  3. Desmond PhantomBrood

    Desmond PhantomBrood Denizen of Desolation

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    I suppose it would depend on the skills of the vampires. Underworld I thought was a pretty good take on vampires versus werewolves. There are numerous varieties of vampires, all sharing the blood lust, majority sharing weakness against holy objects and intolerant of sunlight. It just depends on the vampire.


    P.S. Those Twilight hacks don't count as true vampires
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  4. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    It's possible that the concept of immortality>undeath mindset comes from this thinking, but given the fact that within the supernatural/fantasy scope, anything can happen in the aspect of undeath. That's what makes the two genres so fun and annoying to witness at the same time. Fun b/c of the fact that alternate takes always attract ppl. Annoying b/c there will forever be ppl who preferred the tried and tested formula in the entirety like Met. In fact any and every given concept in the two genres will forever be an absolute case of ambiguity. And lastly, it's sexist to include the horny fangirls alone. ffs this logic of yours also extended into the fanboy mindset as well. Or are you saying that only the fangirl hormones is worthy of notice? -.-

    Every vampire that sparkles by default should be in that list ffs. If I can have my way, I truly hope that Valkenhayn and Slayer are real. In this case, they can just do a double team kill on Stephanie Meyer b/c she gave a bad name to vampires and werewolves via a pussified rep and who would be better to do the job apart those two ASW characters which symbolize all that should be badass abt vampires and werewolves? ;)
     
  5. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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    I don't have any issue with male hormones, except that mine are important to me and the rest of you can keep yours to yourselves.

    However, the reality is that paranormal romances - YA or not - are marketed to and read by females. The reality is that finfteen-year-old boys fantasize about having sex with vampires only because fifteen-year-old boys fantasize about having sex with everything, from supermodels to toasters. Vampires are nothing special to boys. For a fifteen-year-old girl, the vampire is all romantic fantasies rolled into one. He is the sophisticated man, the older man without being creepy, he is strength and protection and wealth and eternal beauty. That is the way the modern vampire is being written, and writers who do that are catering to the young, female market.

    Look back to Stoker, though, and you find a vampire that seduces, but never stops being creepy, and never stops being dangerous. The seductive vampire trope in the first place was a cautionary tale to young women: be careful who you date because some men are monsters.
     
  6. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    I think that's what has been forgotten. Vampires are a form of monster, but modern writing has over-romanticized the notion of a monster with "goodness in him" to an unacceptable point.

    They are essentially as Greybeard put it, a concept given physical form.
     
  7. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    did i bring this up yet? maybe not. There's a series called the Dresden Files which gives a theory about there being different types of vampires, ranging from the White Court, or the sparkly vampires that feed off emotion, the Red Court, which feeds off blood, the Black Court, which feeds off life itself, and others.
     
  8. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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    I've meant to pick up one of the Dresden Files books, but never got around to it. Maybe this week.
     
  9. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    On the whole goodness in a monster thing, it's actually how modern society define cause and effect in a humane sense. To the ppl, every act and thinking will and should have a relevant reason. No matter how much an existence is a monster be it in a literal or allegory sense, there's should be a legit reason behind such a concept. You can compare the notion of traditions with the current take on humanity on this area or just abt any other issues. The ppl during the past didn't have the one thing called grey area in their concept of humanity. That's exactly why what we're seeing in terms of traditional take on vampires are the concept that dictates they are monsters through and through w/o any legit reason as to why things happen this way. Or rather the cause was being made known, but due to the traditional black and white culture in humanity, the myth starters actually ignored the aspect of inner nature so as to say. Best example is Bram Stoker's Dracula. We all know he's sophisticated, creepy and outright evil. But then again, nobody knew what conceived this monster right at the very start. It's like concept and ending is there, but what's the cause? Nobody knows.

    You can't simplify the whole humanizing factor as nothing more than an anomaly. You really have to chase back all the way to how the old society worked and compare it with that of the modern society. Only from there can you see the whole thing as case of cause and effect rather than only the effect. It's not something as simple like a mere idea created by ppl who have too much free time in their hands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2010
  10. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Now you're underestimating the people of the past. You say they don't know grey area? Sure they did. Just because you have not come across all the works that may show it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Much literature indicates to the understanding of how people act and such. Also the way I see it, people are in their basic unit good or bad, but they may do things that doesn't always fit their role, and fine that gives them uniqueness and variety, but at the end of the day you know the pedophile who raped a young girl is a bad person even though they may donate money to their local charity to feed poor people in Africa. Obviously it's not this simple, but you get the point.

    As was stated. They are a concept given physical form. The Vampire is as Greybeard has put it. There is no need to simplify it. They are what they are meant to portray, trying to make them more complex than what they actually are is a somewhat feels like a pompous step of someone trying to look overly intelligent by trying to find things in the subject that are not there. Those are the legitimate reasons to the concept as what Greybeard said as an example (I keep using his because I cannot be bothered to type more than is necessary).

    A monster who is good no longer is a monster. Sure if they have potential to be good then sure it works as a metaphor that not everything/everyone is evil and so on and so forth, but there is an evident feeling that much has been lost in what these creatures are supposed to be and represent, modeled to appeal to the more superficial and not so intelligent (maybe unfairly said on my part) portion of the populace.

    I am all for writers and people trying to add something new and make the character more interesting, and not the same old thing, but not at the expense or over-exaggeration that results in the original essence being lost.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2010
  11. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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    The problem isn't that the people of the past couldn't see a grey area - they could and did - but that we've lost the ability to see anything but a grey area.

    If I see something that exists only by killing people, my response is, "Kill it." Too many people have lost that reflex, have lost the ability to call something evil because it destroys.

    Really, I don't have any problem with giving vampires motivation, as long as part of that motivation is kill to feed. After the girlfriend watches the sparkly vampire chow down on a preschooler, she has her choice of stay or go. But if she stays, she's evil, too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  12. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Okay, I think I might have phrased myself wrongly, but it's true that traditional works of the whole good vs evil genre has always failed to touch on the humane grey area. Like I've said in the Bram Stoker example, what conceived the monster that is Dracula?

    Also on your pedo example, I'm not saying having humane traits=good. You can have your own humane identity and still end up doing wrong things. One major mistake that ppl make in terms of understanding humanity is that they tried to rationalize everything. While it's true that such a subject can be done so, it can't be done in the entirety b/c what one person defines as humane, the public norm might not accept it that way. Humanity can and will be twisted one way or another, but a human is still human. Ditto for your take on the essence of the monster subject. ppl trying to rationalize vampires and what not are not trying to look overly intelligent. Or rather that's not their intention. They just want to go straight into whole issue of cause and effect. It's not that such fans are superficial and stupid. It's their way of thinking. Trying to rationalize everything right to the very fault. This IS the modern society on the whole and that's also a major part of the atheism mentality. The mindset tries to rationalize the concept of a higher power where in fact, it's not meant to be seen that way.

    Yes I agree that vampires are basically simple concept taking a physical form. But as I've said, that very concept was only based on effect alone and when such a thing happens, you'll get to see ppl trying one way or another to rationalize what they define in their own minds as the cause. You might not like it, but that's the way the current society works. And after I've seen this post of yours, I guess we can only agree to disagree in the subject of what we define as the compromising factor on the subject of vampires. Not that I'm rooting for the concept of good vampires anyway. -.-

    Actually on the grey area, it depends. There are still acts which the general ppl still condemns as wrong. But then again as I've implied in my reply to Met, the ppl at this current era are just trying to rationalize the subject of humanity and when such things happen, you can be sure ppl will be talking abt the grey area over and over again.

    On the example of killing you've stated here, it's actually what the post-modernism defines as relativity along the line of "it's your own interpretation because you only see the effect". Saying kill it isn't equal to the view that it should only be viewed as monster w/o any real concept of it's own self. tbh I dun buy the grey area concept in terms of separation between good and evil, but when it comes to human beings, I still believe in cause and effect b/c dun forget that from the view of Christianity, Adam was created from God's image and it also means an absolute awareness of what is right and wrong. However it got corrupted after he and Eve sinned. But does it mean that this awareness has been totally lost? The answer is a straight no. Ditto for your example of the evil via condoning the very act.

    But on your view on motivation, I agree with you albeit the means of survival shouldn't be seen as part of the aim, but rather the aspect of necessity. And ofc when we're talking abt concepts of fiction, different ppl will have different interpretations, so it's only natural for readers to have different views on what the author has done to change the traditional mold. That's what I can only say to you on the kill to feed phrase.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  13. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    hmm, interesting the comments about a grey area and the black/white morality argument. although, come to think of it, is there actually any way to really tell the difference nowadays? Back in the old eras, people used variously the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the sayings of Confucius, and other religious or semi-reiligious texts for determining what was right or wrong.

    But nowadays it seems like, with the separation of church and state and rising diversity, there really isn't a standard anymore.. one might say the law is the standard but then how do the lawmakers determine what laws should be in place?

    Or is morality definied by society? Say, a society in which cannabalism was perfectly all right, versus a society where it was tabboo? Who knows, perhaps there is indeed a society where killing toddelers and drinking their blood for the fun of it was actually acceptable behavior.
     
  14. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    tbh why I said the ppl in the past have a clearer view of black and white was due to the traditional views on morals. Granted there are grey areas, but such cases are rather few compared to the current era. As for whether morality is decided by the society, well that has always been the case throughout human history. Take for example the issue of homosexuality. In the past, it's seen as something absolutely wrong, but now it's totally acceptable. Also you'll have to take into account the issue of post modernism where morality is seen as something relative to the individual. That's why the whole case of morals has been getting hazier in this current era compared to that of the past.
     
  15. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

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    Werewolves would win.. in a lot of stories they're designed to fight against vampires - the natural mortal nemesis of vampires.
    Plus I love my wolfies :)
     
  16. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    so eventually there will be complete anarchy... a society without morals... where right and wrong are relative to the individual...


    ... not a world i'm really that ok with personally...
     
  17. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    lol post-modernism in the entirety IS anarchy. Good thing that the whole idea has yet to take on a total invasion. -.-
     
  18. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    ^which would be a sad and terrible thing to see. It might even spawn a new sort of counterculture, one in which hordes of youth turn increasingly farther away from the anarchic way of thinking and towards a specific standard of morality, whether from old religions or from new movements and leaders.

    now THAT would be a sight to see...
     
  19. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Well what can we say here? As has been proven by history, the humane society has been full of ironies. :S
     
  20. Western Paladin

    Western Paladin Lawful Awesome Overgod

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    Vampire, of course! After all, I was once known as "The Evil Vampire Lord Western Paladin".