Twilight Saga (possibility of SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Twilight' started by olivia_the_lamb, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Maybe there are vampires, but with my luck I'd just get eaten.
     
  2. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I meant the love, not the vampires -_-
     
  3. Nox

    Nox Antediluvian

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    Yeah, we already know there are vampires ^^
     
  4. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    and werewolves >_>
     
  5. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    lol, Well when you put it that way - I'd say my view on true love comes pretty darn close to paralelling my view on vampires right now.
     
  6. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a friend who doesn't believe in love. I don't blame her either and for a while I questioned it myself. It's good to question things though.
     
  7. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    I adore Jacob... best character in the series by far!

    OK... I read these and I've, well, developed some pretty decided opinions :D. I'm putting the positive ones first - do try and remember these as it gets increasingly bitter.

    *Spoilers for all four books*

    Things I Liked About Twilight
    - It's damn compelling. I picked up Twilight about midnight on Friday to read a couple of chapters... read the whole thing. Then I read New Moon and Eclipse on Saturday (skipped homework), was good on Sunday and read Breaking Dawn yesterday (though BD was more a compulsive desire to get the story over with fast... I hated it). Even for me, that's impressive.

    - Eclipse. The best book by far IMO and a genuinely good fantasy novel.

    - Jacob. The reason why Eclipse was such a good book. I love this guy... love the development of his friendship with Bella, his sense of humour, loyalty, bluntness... he's just an incredibly warm (not just in the literal sense) character and a complete contrast to the vampires. Unfortunately he just goes downhill post-Renesmee.

    - The lack of sex and the resulting tension. Not that I have a problem with sex in a book but it's nice for once for it not to feature (in the first three). Besides I think Meyer's best gift is probably in conveying tension and it's palpable between Jacob, Edward and Bella, particularly in Eclipse. Good call there IMO.

    Things I Did Not Like About Twilight
    - Edward. Yes, I know he's good-looking and perfect (more about this later). He's also disturbingly obsessed with controlling Bella (I'm kinda' with Jake on his crack about "abusive teenage relationships" in Eclipse). I mean, he forbids her to visit Jacob at one point. However, I will give him a few brownie points for being less controlling when she becomes a vampire.

    - Breaking Dawn. All of it. It reads from start to finish like a work of dodgy fanfiction and deserves a subcategory all of its own.
    ...- The anti-abortion polemic towards the start. We didn't need that.
    ...- The out-of-the-blue transformation of Bella and Jacob's relationship (more later).
    ...- Renesmee. Yes, she's cute. But... phenomenally gifted? Growing really fast? Able to tell everyone what she really is? Bleh. Too frickin' perfect.
    ...- The end. We've already had the diplomacy result in New Moon. We need a different one this time. Not to mention that it was a perfect happy ending.., I don't have a problem with happy endings if they're well written but this was saccharine.
    ...- The bit at the end when the Volturi go and everyone starts hugging each other. That's how I react when my favourite football team wins. It's not how I want a bunch of vampires, at least half of which actively hunt humans, to react at the conclusion of a fantasy series. Jasper's slight instability was scarier in the earlier books than a whole bunch of murderous bloodsuckers are in BD.

    The One Thing That I Absolutely Detested About the Twilight Series
    Love. Imprinting. Pre-destined soulmates who will love each other forever. Bella appearing to literally not be able to live without Edward in NM (It wouldn't bother me if she just felt that way but the book actually seems to suggest that she is physically not whole without him). I'm scared that some people consider this romantic. It's not. It's cheap. And the epitome of this is the complete transformation between Bella and Jacob's relationship between Eclipse and BD. They're literally in love with each other. There's all this delicious tension between the three of them. Bella can't resist seeing him, even if she knows she's hurting him and vice versa. And in one split second Jacob imprints on Renesmee and realises he's not in love with Bella anymore, while she becomes a vampire and realises that she is also not in love with him anymore. To me, that is an act of supreme literary betrayal (yes, I told you this got bitter). It cheapens the entire relationship between them in Eclipse

    Love, in this world, evidently depends on who you're "destined" to be with and nothing else. It's perfect. It's also lifeless and inhuman. And, too me, this kills the series completely. It's supposed to be a love story but it's based on the concept of a love so sterile, unchangable, so perfect (yes, I keep using that word) that there's no humanity to it. And although my main complaints are about BD and that is where this is most evident, this applies to all the books to at least some extent.

    Whew...
     
  8. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    That was long and very winded.

    I don't like Jacob because he was pushy and forced himself upon Bella in a few different ways.

    I also liked the love of Twilight. Yes, some of it is a bit unrealistic.. but vampires and werewolves aren't realistic either. I think that love is whatever you think it is, and to many teenagers, love is obsessive and something you can't live without. I felt like that when I was 16-18.

    Also, I think that perhaps Meyer will write more books and that is why she left the Volturi thing how it was. Because you KNOW that Aro is going to go back to Italy and plot like there's no tomorrow.

    The thing that I didn't like about Breaking Dawn was the horrible time I had to spend inside of Jacob's head. Bleh.

    Eclipse was good, I couldn't decide if I liked it or BD better. Eclipse has more Jasper in it, so I think that's why I like it more... but the last book in BD was definitely my favourite. I liked Renesmee and how her power was the opposite of Bella's.

    *shrug* I finished all of them in a weeks time, which is also impressive for me considering that I don't like reading all that much anymore. It takes a lot to catch me like that.
     
  9. Nox

    Nox Antediluvian

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    Why would love have humanity in a vampire story anyway?
    And why would it need it anyway?Maybe that's the problem with all the failed loves, maybe that's why only a few know true love.F*cking humanity.
    Humans tend to overthink and basically take all the fun out of life.I think Lyanna is a perfect example, you don't need to analyse everything to it's core.When you see what the insides look like the whole becomes a lot more simple.
    Consider love like an animal would for a change, a raw instinct of need, then maybe things won't be so unrealistic anymore.
     
  10. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    TBH I would generally agree with you about overanalysing to its core but, to me, that's so fundamental to the story that the analysis comes automatically. Not to mention that I only finished it yesterday and it would be difficult to overanalyse in that time. As for why love should have humanity when it's between vampires... you've got a point but I can't empathise with it when it's like that. It's a love story written for humans, therefore humans should be able to relate to it IMO.

    True to some extent, but still vastly preferable to Edward bribing his sister to kidnap Bella so he knows where she is when he's gone. Jacob's is enthusiasm, Edward's is disturbing.

    I like my fundamental character actions/motivations to have some basis of realism, regardless of whether they're vampire/werewolf etc. :). Isn't Edward over 100 anyway - he shouldn't be reacting like a teenager!

    I thought that was by far the most readable part of BD. I don't think we could differ more on this lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  11. Nox

    Nox Antediluvian

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    I realize my vampire character and general distaste for humans may bring some mystery, but I assure you, I am human.And I can relate.

    As for Eddy having Bella kiddnaped, love is never resonable, you don't love with your mind, and besides would you let your mate play in a lions cage?You saw what Sam did to the woman he loved, oh yeah, Jacob's just great company.
     
  12. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I think there is something wrong... Nox and I are in agreement on something ^^
     
  13. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Oh my gosh, I love you Lya.

    I am obsessed with Twilight, but most of the "flaws" you pointed out I totally agree with. Especially about Edward being controlling to an extent and how Bella couldn't live without him. I'm not a flaming feminist but I have friends who are and I can see them tearing this apart.

    I was also a little turned off by the whole "true love" deal. I caught myself rolling my eyes several times as I read the series (also within one week). It is totally unrealistic and unrelatable - but I WANT it to be realistic and relatable so I overlook this.

    As a 22 year old young woman, Twilight made me "feel young again" (which is saying something about the target audience probably). I think this is why I liked it so much. To relive a totally idealistic high school experience and witness what can only be described as a Romeo & Juliet fairytale romance, to crush over a smoking hot vampire man that doesn't exist.

    I left my bitter, realistic perspective behind on the first page and loved every second of Twilight. Maybe when I reread it the pukefest will start.
     
  14. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Oh, and the real reason I came to this thread to begin with. I'm almost done rereading Breaking Dawn (Just waiting for "Paper Towns" to get here) and this quote made me laugh:

    Edward and Bella are exploring the house given to them by the Cullens for Bella's birthday (ie, First vampire on vampire lovemaking)!

    "It felt almost rude to ignore the pretty white bed, but we just weren't going to make it that far."
     
  15. Sevi

    Sevi Pocałunek!

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    I finished all the books! *cheers*

    I really hope she continues with the series, the Volturi, Renesmee-Jacob, Charlie-Sue ANYTHING!

    If I made it reading from Jacob's perspective, and end up loving it in the end, while in Eclipse he got on my nerves, Im pretty sure I will love anything she will write about!

    I understand Edward's love is a bit pressing and obsessive, unhealthy and all these but plz...can I have an Edward for me as well? tyvm ^^
     
  16. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Here's something else that I was thinking about a lot when I was reading.

    Vampires don't have blood running through their system or even a beating heart to circulate it if they did.
    So - how does Edward...get it up?...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  17. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Go to Stephenie Meyer's website, she explains that and how Bella got pregnant.


    I still disagree though. The love is not completely unrealistic and I do find it can be related to.

    Edward did not force Bella into feeling like she couldn't live without him. That was her own doing. She was obsessed with him from the first moment she saw him. The only thing he did was love her back. He even left her to try and force her into a normal life. We all saw what happened there.

    If you don't believe in true love, then I suppose this isn't the story for you.
     
  18. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Straight from Meyer's website (Thanks for the ref by the way, Liv! That answered my question!) :

    "None of this story is possible. It's a fantasy story about creatures that don't actually exist."

    I'm not saying the love story portion of this is totally unrealistic. Just that it's hard to relate too since it hasn't really happened for me (yet).

    And cmon Liv! You know how impressionable young girls are. It's probably not healthy to promote the idea that you aren't complete without a man to love and protect you. That being said, I grew up with The Little Mermaid, which is equally unhealthy - you should give up your family, your life, even your voice to be with a man? I feel like a pretty independent woman despite Disney. So, who's to say what's right and what's wrong?
     
  19. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    "None of this story is possible. It's a fantasy story about creatures that don't actually exist."

    I believe that statement is only valid because the story is about vampires and werewolves. That doesn't mean the love isn't real and that people haven't loved liked like that.

    Btw, Ariel learned her lesson... and that is, make sure you weigh the options etc. She didn't have to give up her voice to be with her love, but she did anyway. She didn't have to give up anything... but she did. Now, I wouldn't listen to a fat, ugly, octopus, but that is just me. But I do know that I would give up everything I have now for the one I love. Sometimes that's just how love is.

    Love is whatever you feel, and Bella felt that her love was her life. Same with Edward. So I still stand by what I say.
     
  20. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    I'm not really critisizing Twilight. I love Twilight. If she published another book tomorrow I would go out and buy the hardcover. So, eh - it's all good!

    So I was playing around a little with Photoshop. One of the only things I really didn't like about the movie was Rosalie's character. She's supposed to be the most beautiful person on Earth, but I thought she was pretty average. I was looking for something a little closer to Scarlett.

    [​IMG]