The Tea Party

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by azuren82, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    Of the recent years, we all have seen a political movement in US known as the Tea Party. Basically a lot of left leaning Americans are worried about the potential impact coming from this group of people. Because I'm not too well versed in US politics, I need you guys to offer your views on such a political phenomena. Just debate away, but be civil please. And yeah, sad to see Justice going MIA here. I would have wanted to see his views on this one. :)
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    The liberal and the leftist of a country and most important of an enemy country,is your best friend.But as for Americans I don't know.They can be easily manipulated by the media either they're leftists or right-wing.
     
  3. Daenerys

    Daenerys Blood of the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    My dad is very anti-liberal but he went to a tea party thing...? I don't know much about politics (I hate politics actually), I only recently came of voting age and have not had to vote yet so I have not paid much more attention to what has been going on other than what my dad rants about...
     
  4. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +341 / 1 / -0
    From what I can tell voting tends to fall into these rough choice brackets:

    1) We're a "insert name of party" family and always vote for "insert name again"
    1b) this also stands true for wing sides - left/right wing families voting for left/right wing parties only
    1c) it also rings true for parties of particular religious connection

    2) "insert name of party" will end up taxing us less than the others (taxes always go up it just depends which sector of society foots the bill) (my theory is this is probably one of the biggest reasons for many votes ;))

    3) The boss/union said vote for them

    4) I strongly believe in "insert party name" promises to us (note this is generally the least important reason ;))

    And now back to the Tea Party discussion
     
  5. Daenerys

    Daenerys Blood of the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    The reason I do not care about politics anymore is because it has turned into a popularity contest to see who gets to be boss for a few years instead of trying to make this country better. All the ad campaigns are "he did this terrible thing so don't vote for him!" rather "Here is what good I can do for you, vote for me!". Its all childish finger-pointing. And nobody keeps the promises they make to the American people once they get into office, so why bother listening to what they have to say anyway?

    But what my first post was meant to say, I don't think tea parties are strictly liberal things, because my dad hates anything liberal and wouldn't have gone to one if it was.
     
  6. Sorillon

    Sorillon Thousandth Post Thief

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,606
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Deep in the depths of Spam
    Ratings:
    +140 / 1 / -0
    Just to clarify the Tea Party IS very strongly anti-liberal.
     
  7. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    8,797
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    A Pirate city in international waters
    Ratings:
    +192 / 0 / -0
    Here ya go:
    (some language not suitable for work or minors)

     
  8. Daenerys

    Daenerys Blood of the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    A completely biased view of tea partiers...but whatever. Not all are completely idiotic. Though some are. But so are most liberals.
     
  9. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    Most of neither side is idiotic but both sides have loonies. Tea partiers are 1000000% conservative though. I'm not sure about their platform though, it seems like they are just republicans that want a different name.
     
  10. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,384
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Back home in Vegas!
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    I hate that. All political campaigns have been so nasty recently. I don't want to hear random quotes twisted to make your opponent look bad, or ads only trashing people. The Nevada race got over the top vicious this year, I say get rid of all of them.

    There are extremists on both sides, and they make both sides look bad. All they are doing is making the divide between the parties get bigger, which helps make the nastiness get worse, and stalls any progress in fixing this country. Just my opinion, I try to ignore most of the BS because it's all so pointless.
     
  11. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    For the busy (and lazy) like me :D can someone please do a quick rundown of what left, right, liberal, etc etc actually believe in? Who's conservative and who wants to shake things up?
     
  12. Daenerys

    Daenerys Blood of the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    The super super basics: liberals (or left-winged) are for more government control and regulation, while conservatives (or right-winged) want less gonvernment control and influence. There is moer to it but I am not well-versed in politics.
     
  13. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    Liberals want more change in the government and more power to it like what Daneyrys said, while conservatives would like to stay by the books and keep the government from expanding and let business take more influence.

    Sadly there are people that are in the government that are corrupt swine, and people in business that are greedy hounds.

    Pretty much conservatives were ticked by the health care stuff because it competes or removes the need for privatized health care and will make the quality of our health care drop. Liberals would argue that it is just government competition with other health care and it is more easily affordable for poor. Though both sides are some what right and so the right organized Tea Parties to have people shake signs that say how much they hate socialist heath care.

    I like to think of the Tea Party as hippies but for conservatives, organized but less organized, not entirely clear on all of their platform, and they stick to the far right. Hippies could mass together but only could shake signs talking about peace and such, and being very liberal. Still the Tea Party is more organized so I don't know if it will just be a temporary thing.

    At least this is what I gather from it all, correct me if I'm crazy wrong about anything, I pretty much scraped the bottom of my memory on this.
     
  14. Justice

    Justice New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    To balance out Alchemists very slanted post...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?_r=1

    According to the NY Times and CBS, both VERY unfriendly to conservatives, Tea Party supporters tend to be wealthier and more educated than the general public. This absolutely shattered all the redneck, toothless beardo stereotypes liberals had of so called "Teabaggers". Funny that debate amongst liberals essentially consists of using stereotypes and sexual innuendo rather than a frank and honest debate. Many left leaning politicians laughed and scoffed at tea Party influence even a few months ago. Even though the Republicans failed to take the Senate, they overtook the House by a decent majority now.

    It even has Obama now saying he'll work with the Republicans. You know, that bipartisan compromise he promised in the beginning but never did... especially after secret, closed door meetings where Republicans were locked out of chambers during the Health care debate.

    This is the reason the Tea Party has been successful. It's based around a very simple idea. Less government, less spending. That's it. The US owes almost as much in national debt as we make in a single year of GDP. 13 trillion dollars. Way more than the fair share was imposed by Obama, and we're looking at another 600 billion dollar bailout from the Federal Reserve. As if throwing almost 2 trillion dollars in a huge pile and setting on fire wasn't bad enough, we're going to shovel another 600 billion in the mess.

    The only jobs a government can promise are government jobs. And once you create government departments to house government workers, they never go away. Greece is a prime example on how things can go real bad, real fast when too many people work for the government, and there's not enough people making money to pay taxes in the free market to support them. So Obama is looking more and more like a failure, most polls have him in the low 40% area, several actually hit high 30's, which is GW Bush territory.

    Every one of the things that is happening now is basically what many people said was going to happen. The government can't stimulate an economy. It can lay off the backs of those who pay taxes, allowing them to invest in a business, either their own or through Wall Street, and when more and more people become employed (really, the absolute foundation of a bad economy is unemployment, and Obama failed there miserably) more and more people have the confidence to spend.

    Nancy Pelosi, the worst speaker of the House in history if I might add my own personal bias here, said the stupidest thing any politician has ever said a while ago.


    Basically, unemployment checks stimulate the economy. You know, people spend that money fast. They buy TV's and such, and movies and computers and... or... no... most people pay rent, pay their bills like gas and food. Those things are only very, VERY minor stimulation to the economy, mostly because if you buy a house, they don't have to build more to replace the one you bought. People drive less when they're broke because they can't afford gas. They stock up on cheap frozen food rather than dining at restaurants. Things get WORSE when you're unemployed Nancy.

    You know what stimulates an economy better Nancy? Having a job which creates a demand of for a product or service. Having said service be necessary and practical, infusing value in the paper currency of the nation that prints it. You know why a dollar from the US is worth like 500 million from Zimbabwe? Because some nations do not produce anything of that much value. Here in the US we are actually DE-VALUATING our currency by simply printing trillions of dollars more and handing it out to the people and institutions the government deems necessary. When Obama went on his Asian tour just a few days ago, EVERY nation he visited, especially Korea and Japan, told him printing money like crazy was a horrible idea. Over a year ago when Obama went on a European tour, he told Europe that they needed to keep spending money to keep their economies going. They laughed at him then too.

    That's what the Tea Party is about. It's about telling the government to stop trying to micro manage the economy, and instead just keep an eye on the Federal Reserve and try to promote policies that do not over spend us into 10's of trillions of dollars of debt that our great, great grand children will be paying back one day.
     
  15. Justice

    Justice New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0


    I would say you are right on the descriptors of why the right hates Government healthcare and the left loves it.

    The problem the left has is showing that having the US Government as a competitor won't destroy an entire sector. After all, the government has unlimited funds. There's no way any business can compete with the government, because if you singled out the US government as a business, they are larger than all of the US Health Care providers combined.

    So I don't buy the argument the government will create competition. It will only hurt it.
     
  16. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Liberals, by the very defintion, believe that people and companies should have - and can be trusted with - freedom and should take responsibility for that fact. They believe that this is indeed the best foundation to a successful society. This means as little gouvernment interference as possible and responsible. As such, either your conservatives are also liberals - or the conservatives plan to reduce gouvernment control to such a level that society would become unstable in opinion of the liberals.

    As to the new healthcare system; it appears that it is portrayed in the US as the pet project of Erich Honecker himself. I am led to believe that this anti-socialist sentiment is unique to the US. In other countries - pretty much all civilised countries - (semi-) gouvernment-run healthcare programs work quite well. And that conservative gouvernments, as well as liberals and socialists started or continued these projects. It's quite a long shot to call it socialist in any way. But that is not a particularly good reason to implement one in the US.

    What is a good reason to have one implemented in the US is the fact that the current system in the US is failing pretty dismally. Healthcare is either way too expensive, sub-standard - and, often, both. The private sector has failed to set up a healthcare system that is in any way decent. And it's not like they haven't had the time.

    I will have to admit it is second choice but, as health insurance companies have shown not to be capable of setting up a proper healthcare system, it becomes the duty of the gouvernment to intervene. Not doing so is not in the benefit of society. However, coming back to the anti-socialist sentiment, it appears that emotions are so strong that a rational debate is hardly possible...


    I think it examplifies the Tea Parties - there is a lot of (anti-socialist) sentiment. It appears that the movement mirrors nationalist and anti-immigration and -Islam movements in Europe; conservatives appealing to old or exsisting values in a rather populist manner. Truth and reason are second to exsisting sentiments. In that, it's all rather typical for both globalisation (the search for identity) and economic crisis (times of resentment). Luckily, it's probably just a phase...

    Well, as such, that's rather short-sighted as well.

    I think you missed the point. The limited benefits the unemployed do get is injected directly back into the economy. It's near impossible to save a single penny on these benefits. As such, it's much better than the occasional tax rebate, for instance, which last time was largely spent on savings and repaying debt.

    Of course, being on unemployment benefits is not exactly a sound financial situation. As such, it's better to find a job, or it should be anyway. This is, however, not covered in the U-tube fragment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010