The speculation thread!

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by GameMaster, May 19, 2004.

  1. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    Come on guys we all love to speculate about the series. There are many topics in which you may just have a gut feeling or much evidence from the previous books on how something will turn out or how some obscure event actually happened.

    In this thread it is ok to wildly speculate, this is not a place for a well worked theory although I have to say that I have seen many speculations that people call theories. So come on and let's have some fun.
     
  2. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    Ok, I'll start with one.

    I think that Mat will betray Rand. I think he may do this though without the intention to specifically betray Rand but just choosing one of a lesser evil.

    Couple of things in the earlier books make me believe that if Mat had no choice he may do something that Rand would consider a betrayal.

    First speculation:

    In TEotW, when Howal Gode is hunting Rand and Mat at that inn when they're locked in just before Rand destroys the wall of that storage room. Gode demands that they submit to the Great Lord of the Dark and Mat says to Rand:

    "If we don't have any choice-" ..."We could say yes, and then get away later. Blood and ashes, Rand, there's no way out!"

    So, we can see that if in a tight spot he could submit to the DO or just say he will do it with hopes of getting away later. Only Mat from the Two Rivers people would do something like this. Others would opt to die first I think.

    He, Thom, and the rest "faked" their oaths to "Await, Obey and Serve" when the Seanchan invaded Ebou Dar. He's most capable of it.

    Which means if he does "turn", it will be with his fingers crossed behind his back ;)


    Second speculation:

    When they go through the portal stone in TGH, when they experience all the lives that may be, afterwards Mat looks guilty and repeatedly tells Rand that he would never betray him. Obviously, he did betray him in other lives.


    Third speculation:


    Well, we all know how RJ has pulled into WOT so much from the stories, myths, and religions of our real world, and Mat as a Judas certainly fits with that (old, old idea this, I'm sure).

    Judas gave up/betrayed the Light of the World. Of course we know it had to be in order for the world to be saved. Mat giving up half the light of the world in order to save the world could easily be an RJ take on this. The question is, in what way?

    And lastly, I think Rand will be collared first by the Seanchan (Suroth and the copycat Tuon) and after his escape Mat's betrothal to Tuon will definitely be viewed as a major betrayal to Rand at first.
     
  3. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Ive always looked at Mat as more of an Odin type figure, rather than a Judas. Odin has one eye, two ravens (there are two ravens on Mat's ashandarei) and Odin agreed to have himself hung from Yggrdassil (Tree Of Life) In exchange for wisdom while Mat hung himself from Avendesora (Tree Of Life) in exhange for his memories/battle knowledge.

    And can we please not have a discussion on how Lews Therin Telamon killed himself, he overloaded on the One Power, it wasn't Balefire or lightning, or Air and Fire woven together. RJ has even said he just overloaded and burnt himself out.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2004
  4. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    There's a lot of Odin in Mat, no question. But there are other traits that RJ incorporates into characters I think.
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I'm not finished with CoT yet so I may be speaking with less foresight than some, but I think that Mat and Tuon will bring the Seanchan to Rand in some way. Yes, I realize that the Seanchan think Rand should kneel before the Crystal Throne, but Tuon seems to have a decent head on her shoulders despite the Seanchan radicalism.
     
  6. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    i think perrin will be the judas. we all know he'd sell his soul to the DO to get faile back. there's actually quite a good theory up at wotmania under the recently submitted theories, called the uncrowned king, and it makes a great case for lan being the judas. check it out.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Very good point with Perrin, but I think he'd be more likely to die in a vain attept to save her rather than betray anyone. He seems very loyal to me and not just to Faile.
     
  8. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Perrin will be loyal to the end, so will Mat. I recall Min saying something along the lines of "they'll all need each other, if Tarmon Gai'dan is to be won." Something like that. Ive yet to check out this Lan-Judas theory, but ill have a read sometime soon.
     
  9. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    oh it's so good!!!!! :) i'm REALLY leaning toward that, now.
     
  10. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I just read it.....and well, i don't believe it. Too many holes. And one thing i kept thinking was "If Lan is a Darkfriend, then why couldn't Moiraine feel it through the bond." Only the Aes Sedai can "shield" or "shroud" the bond, so Lan's feelings would be permenantly open to Moiriane.

    Anyway, its an interesting theory, but highly unlikely to say the least. Btw, 81% of those who read don't agree, so yeah......but who knows, right ?
     
  11. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    If I have to pick someone who will betray Rand I'd say it will be Egwene. She is totally wrapped up in being Amyrlin and uniting the white tower. I think given the chance she would do nearly anything to reach that end, and with one of the Forsaken in the Tower, who knows.
     
  12. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    Well, yeah, one could say she has already betrayed Rand in a way. In my opinion she should have herself and her AS sworn fealty to Rand. I don't think though that Rand thinks of her as someone in his team, so it's hard to call it a betrayal, at least in his eyes. "All women are Aes Sedai" hehe.
     
  13. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    egwene stinks. :)
     
  14. shaiel

    shaiel Chumai Tardaad

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    i was rereading loc this morning and found some interesting stuff. two things, actually. the first one:

    "The child has spirit," Sorelia laughed as soon as Berelain was gone. Reclining on the cushions again, she patted the space next to her for Egwene. "We should find the right husband for her, a man to match her. If such exists aong wetlanders."

    Is this a case for Rolan and Berelain, or Galad and Berelain? If the latter, will the Aiel have something to do with it and thus maybe Galad is the WC in the Shaido camp?

    secondly:

    Gawyn startled her by drawing a ragged breath. "I will give over everything, betray everything for you."
    ...
    "And you. Betray? Gawyn Trakand, that word fits you as darkness fits the sun."

    foreshadowing? :)
     
  15. GameMaster

    GameMaster I's all about the Game!

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    Galad and Berelain, could happen. Berelain has already managed Cairhien, and if she entangles Galad she would definitely have him succeed to the Sun Throne. Personally, I would rather Galad died. Can't see Berelain and an Aiel.
    He's not in the Shaido camp, at least according to Eamon Valda, who says in CoT that Galad is still somewhere roaming with the White Cloaks.


    Since Gawyn killed his teacher in the WT, I think he's definitely flawed in logic and judgement and he practically betrayed the sitting amyrlin at that time, so why not do something more stupid. Gawyn sucks.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2004
  16. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I love it! lol He has gotten really annoying. If anyone betrays Rand or anyone on the good side, I hope it's him. I already think he'll die due to his mouth, so I wouldn't be upset.

    The others would be horrible if any of them betrayed him.
     
  17. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Id be upset if any of Rand's closest friends betrayed him, especially if it was any of the Two Rivers folk. I can't see Egwene doing it though, i mean, it was only a few years ago her and Rand believed they would wed. Ah well, has anyone else read the Uncrowned King theory ? If so, what do you think ?
     
  18. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I'd agree for the most part, I would also be upset if any of them betrayed him. However, Egwene keep mentioning to herself that the 'Two Rivers Egwene' is gone now.
     
  19. Loki the Demon

    Loki the Demon "Belgium, Man!"

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    i've justt been reading some of the theories on the wotmania site, and there were a whole lot about drageons in the wheel of time, whether they are/were real there or just part of the mythology in the AoL. Haven't these people been paying attention? What do they think the Seanchan have been flying around on. To'Raken and Raken. Sounds like a concievable parallel for 'Dragons' to me.
    sorry. Just thoought i'd throw that in
     
  20. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Yeah, i dunno know though. I wouldn't call em Dragons. And im confident that there never were any Dragons in any age. Which makes me wonder where they got the word from, and why they called Lews Therin "The Dragon."

    Perhaps, they too have myths about Dragons, much like we do ? Who knows ? Any thoughts.