The Ground-Zero "Mosque"

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Turambar, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I couldn't either buddy... *pats back*
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Cheapskates!You're all giving her the good reputation and forget about my good posts *sob*

    Just because I don't have breasts and a wolf in my avatar doesn't mean she gets all the reps..... :p

    Btw for Turambar: It's funny how in some posts on youtube some sunnis were accusing the shiites of not taking part in the "jihad".Lol!Many of them keep fighting on youtube.

    Khomeini had the idea of an Islamic Revolution but he wanted Shiites to rule.On the other hand most of the Sunni muslims and especially the Arabs of the area were supporting Iraq in order to stop the spread of the Shiite Islamic Revolution.

    I think most of the "jihad" movements started during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and since then they have been going to various places in the world trying to support their muslim brothers.

    Syria DID stop a big muslim terrorism...umm...organization?Uprising?I don't remember what it was,but President Assad butchered those who threatened his power.
    In Jordan the previous king had eliminated some Palestinian organizations who were trying to revolt as well.Recently,even Hamas in Gaza eliminated in a few hours(literally in a few hours)a militia/organization which wanted to impose "Sharia law on Gaza" and declared Gaza and Islamic Emirate.

    It's a good thing that USA had provided support to the Fatah party in Palestine,but it's a bad thing that they lost control of Gaza and were kicked out of there.
     
  3. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    I thought America stood to higher standards than Iran. What right does America have to preach of its cultural superiority, if it acts just like its enemies.

    Besides, it's contrary to democratic values.
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    This isn't about who is better than who.It's about knowing your limits.The government has an obligation to respect the families of the people who died and to respect the fact that this could cause more trouble.So if you want to displease a majority of your country just to earn the favor of a minority inside and a possible favor outside from certain countries....then you might as well build a huge mosque with 4 minarets,100 meters tall each in Central Park,full Islamic Center and free housing for all muslims.But you know what?Even if you do that,that doesn't mean most muslims outside USA moderate or not will change their opinion on you.
     
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  5. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    I most definitly do not support the mentality, but the simple fact is that no matter where you come from, most people act basically the same way. And I would not be suprised to see America acting just like Iran would have had the scenario come to pass.

    "Democratic values"? "cultural superiority"? ....ya.....no. Japanese internment during WWII. Enslavement and then outrite lynching and abuse of African-Americans. the anti-immigration laws. the lynching of thousands of Chinese. the massacre and genocide of native americans. the treatement of the lower classes during the industrial revolution. the watts riots. the chicano civil rights movement. the Guantanamo Bay incident.

    What "Right" DO we have? none.
     
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  6. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    That's just stupid. It serves no purpose, other than a petty sense of revenge, and it might have bad consequences, not only morally, but also politically.

    @Foinikas: It's not about the muslims changing their opinion or not. And I'm sure most would have a better opinion. And not just muslims. And do you really think the victim's family will feel better if they don't do it. They may think they rather not have the mosque there, but truth is that it won't change the fact that their beloved are dead and they are not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  7. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    It is pointless, and yes, it is a very sad thing. But that doesn't change the reality that, sadly, people act and respond very much the same way across the cultures, as much as we would like to think otherwise.
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Tell me,why isn't the government allowing the reconstruction of the Greek Orthodox church,the only place of worship that was destroyed during the 9/11 attacks as the news here said yesterday and allows a mosque to be build instead?
     
  9. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    well...
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I don't know what that...Vehicle Security Center is but I heard something about something armored on TV the other day about this subject.
     
  11. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    Why, then, pretend our culture is superior, if we don't seek to stand over them through superior actions?
     
  12. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    It appears I missed this one...

    I will agree that people don't act not entirely in the same way. But I must ask you how well-traveled you are. Have you traveled, lived outside Western society?

    If so, you will have experienced that the difference in cultures can be so immense that in practice people can't be said to respond in the same way. Things you think are natural and you might take for granted might be totally unknown in other cultures. And vice versa.
     
  13. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Nor could I
     
  14. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    If they want to be superior they should solve the Palestinian matter in favor of the Palestinians and return to the pre-1967 borders and remove all settlements.And to leave Lebanon alone,have Israel return the Golan Heights back to Syria and find a peaceful solution with Iran.Let's face it.To win against the Taliban they could need the help of Shiite Iranians and generally more Shiites in the world.
     
  15. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

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    Why yes, i have in fact lived in various countries outside of Western society. In fact, I am proud to say my entire family, both extended and nuclear, are native-born chinese and only moved to America relatively recently. And I should tell you, I visit friends and relatives from Nigeria, Venezuela, India, and even, yes, Iran. And throughout the various cultures I have encountered, they all act basically the same.

    Now, other cultures may be more sensitive to some things than others. And their actions may seem extreme to westerners. But are westerners so much above the rest of the world that they would not, say, lynch someone they hated, or slander other people? Sadly, the answer is no, they would still do things that would seem, in quote-unquote civilized society, barbaric, given extreme situations. And yes, I would consider 9/11 and the Mosque question an extreme situation.
     
  16. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    What are you talking about? Is that a response to my comment?
     
  17. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I haven't waded through all the posts, but can we stay on topic please?


    I believe human nature is the same all over the world, and has not changed since the beginning of time. SOCIETY and its rules, views and attitudes can change, but that won't change the underlying basic desires, lusts, wants, ambitions of human nature.

    And I find much of inate human nature to be quite disgusting in the way we treat each other. The thin veneer if civility we lay over ourselves comes off alarmingly quickly under duress and despite our huge brains, we quickly revert to treating each other like the animals we are.
     
  18. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    All this sounds a little deliberate imo. Trying to incite hatred to keep it nice and fresh, lest we forget who the enemies are, eh kids? *thumbs up*.... Shouldn't matter what is built at Ground Zero, and saying that building a mosque is wrong because the terrorists etc were Muslim is like saying it's wrong to build an art museum there because they were big Van Gogh enthusiasts....

    Anyway, like I said this all sounds like BS to me as it would seem very stupid for them to consider this idea because of what the reaction would be, yet here it is, that says to me it's on purpose, so, I ignore it and not play into this crap. Build whatever you please on Ground Zero, it's not dishonouring those who died there, who are still loved and cherished by those who cared about them, and their deaths are still seen as a tragedy. We're talking about a plot of land here, get a grip.

    PS, this isn't directed at anyone here in particular, more a reaction to reading about all of this in the news the past days.
     
  19. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    I supposed you didn't read Running's post here, Padme. It's not a matter of anti-Islamic and what not. 9-11 is still a very sensitive topic amongst the Americans especially those in NYC and under this context, anything can go wrong here. And of course it doesn't help that the dastardly mass media are brainwashing the people. To be frank I'm all for tolerance, but Obama might be pushing his luck too far with this call. :(

    P.S: I did the one thing Anakin and Tur failed to do. Yay for the rep I gave Running. :)
     
  20. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    No I didn't read what Running or anyone here said, like I mentioned in my post, it was more a reaction to what I've seen/ read on the news.