The Future?

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Blackness, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I realize that....I was just stating them one after the other. The king of the Andals is also the King of the First Men, yet everyone says them seperately n_n

    And I don't want Jaime and Brienne together because Jaime is a jerk and a prettyboy, and GRRM is trying to make us feel sorry for him, but I don't because he defenestrated a little boy and then sent a hired knife to kill him to try to prevent people from finding out about his incestuous relationship with his sister (and yes, I know that this lead to Bran's mental awakening). I cheered when Vargo Hoat cut his hand off. Yeah, he's being reformed, but him and Brienne together just seems wrong to me.
     
  2. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    It was Joffrey who sent the hired knife. Jaime was quite disgusted at the idea of sending anyone else to do his dirty work, remember?
     
  3. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    @ Kraas: Which means that Jon can't be Azor Ahai. >.>
     
  4. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,907
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    The question of Jon's parentage (& part yet to play) has been discussed frequently on ASoIaF discussion threads. The theory that fits (IMHO) best is that Jon's parents are Rhaegar & Lyanna. I've replicated the most reasoned, relevant comments below for those who haven't seen them before ...

    "Evidence that Jon is Lyanna's son abounds. Eddard finds her in a bed of blood (childbirth). Before her death, she whispers "promise me" and Eddard does, though the promise has not yet been revealed. (Promise me that you will never tell Jon the truth? Sounds reasonable.) Also, Lyanna's symbol is the blue rose. In Danaery's vision, she sees blue roses growing from a wall of ice. Jon, by the end of the 3rd book, is Lord Commander of the Nightwatch, so what else could this image mean?

    After the sack of King's Landing, Eddard finds Lyanna at the Tower of Joy, but there he must fight against three members of the kingsgaurd to rescue her, despite the fact that Rhaegar and Aerys are already dead. Why would the kingsguard be there, unless they were guarding Lyanna - and Rhaegar's unborn heir?

    If this possibility is true, it explains the stark features, the King's blood, the albino Direwolf, and leaves open the possibility that Jon, not Danaerys, is Azor Ahai, the Prince that was promised. Furthermore, it combines ice from the Starks and Fire from the Targaryens in Jon, making the title of the series apply to him, specifically. " Additionally Cersei herself thinks how Rhaegar's attention had switched to the 'wolf-girl' (clearly Lyanna).
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2007
  5. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    *cough* We had a thread for this a while back... even if Crusader and I totally spammed it with one of our innumerable arguments. =P I'll go bump it.
     
  6. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I'm really sorry about shooting my mouth off about Jaime & the hired knife, I have a lot of rereading to do. Just started CoK yesterday...

    Real reply later, too many bosses at this customer site n_n

    I'm a moron with a lot of re-reading to do #_# I can't believe I forgot the detail about the hired knife. I really need to catch up on this, sorry for mouthing off like that. But I still feel that Jaime + Brienne = *hurl*.

    Even with all the evidence supporting Jon's Targaryen heritage, I still don't like it. Things would just be working out too perfectly for Jon, which I don't want. I'm not saying that he couldn't be Rhaegar and Lyanna's child, but that I hope he isn't. I like him better as a bastard who rises to greatness on his own merit. GRRM already has put a doubt in my mind about prophecies with the Stallion that Mounts the World...of course, maybe the Dosh Khaleen weren't talking about Drogo's kid...*brain explodes* Sorry if you guys have talked about all this before.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2007
  7. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,907
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    ^ I wouldn't worry about missing the odd detail ~ at the end of the day it's that and the differing interpretations which enable discussions to take place and allow the 'experts' to point out the errors in our posts ;) :)

    The Night Watch is a meritocracy so you could say Jon has already progressed, as a bastard, to Lord Commander albeit with a lot of help from Sam's politicking. He has also been offered Lordship of House Stark by Stannis which he declined so through natural circumstance he has progressed without any Targaryen bloodline assistance.
     
  8. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    True enough. I guess it wouldn't cheapen his character if he's Targaryen, destined, etc.

    Is there any hard evidence of Lyanna even having a kid? We have "bed of blood", but that could be wrist-blood, moon-blood, any kind of blood. But do we ever see her with a child? I need to read the chapters where Daenerys enters the warlock's place again, I can't remember if it was definitely Elia in the PtwP scene, or if there was some doubt.
     
  9. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    Nicely put, Elladan, and very true :).

    @ Kraas: I'd nearly forgotten the Stallion that Mounts the World prophecy...I'm not as much of an expert as some of the others (i.e. Liadan :D), but I've definitely never heard it related to Jon. That's very intriguing...I'll be thinking on that one.

    Oh, and I'm fairly sure it's Elia in the vision and the child is Aegon...I wouldn't mind having someone corroborate it though. There's some very convincing arguments as to R+L=J theory - I'm looking them up at the moment.
     
  10. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,907
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    ^^ Krass, for me the key is the presence of the Kingsguard protecting Lyanna ~ Lyanna was not of the royal line so why would three of them be there if not to protect the Targaryen line in some other way ~ a child?
     
  11. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    The Stallion isn't necessarily related to Jon, but I'm saying, if one prophecy can fail, then so can others. And right now it seems that the Dosh Khaleen were wrong, since Daenerys seems to have no desire for another husband, and if Mirri Maaz Durr is to be believed, the bloodmagic ritual has left poor Dany sterile.

    On MMD...anyone feel sorry for her? I feel a little pity, but she willfully deceived Daenerys. If she had outright refused to help Drogo after they discovered his infected wound, then I really would feel bad for her.
     
  12. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Lol. I've become infamous for my obsession with the series, I see.

    And yes, I believe it's Elia/Aegon.

    As for MMD... not really. I kind of pitied her in the beginning, but not by the end.

    My whack theory of the moment: Gendry marries Sansa. Not going to happen, but it'd be funny if it did. Gendry's actually a good kid. :p
     
  13. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Gendry is teh awesome...I would have figured him for Arya, but I don't think the Faceless make attachments like that. Him and Sansa would be a good match.

    Prediction: the (bad) maesters send an assassin to get rid of Marwin. Marwin kills the assassin...WITH A FIREBALL n_n Doubt that, but it would be nice. He later dies in some other way.
     
  14. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Lol, Marwyn + fireball = awesome.
     
  15. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    Lol, Gendry's a great character...don't know about him and Sansa though :D

    Prediction: Gendry and Edric Storm meet up at some point, maybe in the BWB and figure out they're brothers. Then after the final bloodbath one of them takes the throne.
     
  16. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Ratings:
    +79 / 0 / -0
    No! Absolutely not. Gendry and Arya are meant to be together. Just when I'm starting to like Sansa you have to plant the seed of fiery hatred of her in my mind.

    If she marries Gendry...I quit reading. (Ok, we both know that's an empty threat - but I will be VERY unhappy)
     
  17. Kraas

    Kraas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Well, Gendry IS pretty noble, and Sansa DOES want a knight in shining armor (though I'm sure she's given up hope for one by now), and Gendry DOES know how to make armor...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    I think that's the problem...Sansa marrying a common blacksmith??? How scandalising!
     
  19. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Kraas understood my reasoning. :p
     
  20. StarTrooper3000

    StarTrooper3000 Realm Warrior

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    While Gendry is pretty awesome, I think he'll be reserved for a lesser role. How about a peer to Arya in some future battle? What if he saves her life, she falls in love with him, and he tells her he is totally devoted to that twig girl from the inn? o_O

    A while back in this thread there was a bunch of speculation about Littlefinger. Here's a point no one brought up. In GoT I think it was, Arya's in the basement of the red castle, you know, where the dragons are. She's chasing that cat. She comes across two men, one who looks suspiciously like Illyrio and has the right accent and the other who is round and pudgy like Varys and knows just which rock to push to open and close secret passage ways. I'm pretty sure it is clear after reading this that they are in cahoots together; I mean afterall, who sails across the ocean just for a chat?? So, this is way back before Eddard dies... Now, this means in a round about way that Littlefinger was still around. Somehow, Littlefinger always seemed to be in on a bunch of strange little secrets that he shouldn't have been privvy to, has anyone noticed that? I speculate that this came from some understanding he had with Varys (this could also explain some good decisions made using the crown's coin.) So, all three men, smart in their own regards, are brought together. Let's examine their motives...because they are all different.
    Petyr -- In it for his own benefit most of the time. Highest realistic aspiration seems to be in the Vale, but may be looking for spot in King's Landing.
    Varys -- He's loyal to the crown. Which belongs to Dany by rights, and just before her Vyseris (sp?)
    Illyrio -- Loyal to Dany in a way. He sees he can benefit in some way from her being crowned (trade maybe?) In any case, he is supporting her rise to power obviously.
    Now, we need to go to the most recent chapters of ASOIAF to see what's up with them currently. In Sansa's last chapter we see that Petyr just returned from some long trip (I'll let you all in on the fact that I am writing this from memory so details sometimes escape me) and he comes back and hints at some secret he is privvy to. Asked for more details he tells Sansa not to worry. Could this be his knowledge of the dragons and Dany? Maybe that Dany is ready to come across the sea? Let's further the relationship between Varys and Illyrio too, and look at Tyrion's **SPOILER** chapter from ADwD. Varys sends him across the sea to Illyrio... What could this mean? Hmmm, obviously it supports a relationship between the two men. So, they are definitely up to something. What they plan on doing with Tyrion is anyone's guess, I have heard talk about him being one of the heads of the dragon, but I have yet to hear any arguements for it. I think one thing Martin might be trying to do is create some group (focused around Dany) which will unite the seven kingdoms and to do so he wants representation from each of the major houses. Tyrion would represent the Lannisters obviously. THis way all houses could be called to arms in favor of the Queen. That is total specualtion and probably wrong, but it is an idea. We mustn't forget either the fact that Petyr has a plan to take Winterfell back with Harry. If he can accomplish this Winterfell, via Harry >> Sansa >> Petyr >> Dany, will support the Targaryens. One more thing in the complex of the Targaryens -- what about Dorne? They have the support of Dorne! The Prince of Dorne, idk his name (it doesn't matter) had plans to marry his daughter off to none other than Viserys! He obviously supported the Dragons here. Now, I know it would have been of personal benefit to his own house and line to have his daughter as queen, but I think there may be a deeper significance to the plans. He is probably in on the Petyr-Illyrio-Varys plan.

    Ok, so, in closing to my long comment, here's what I think is gonna happen:

    Dany will sail across to the seven kingdoms, with Tyrion at her side. She will have some decisive victory but will get beaten back a bit by those religious nuts. Around the same time the Other battle will be taking place. Stannis will lose his life in it, dying for "his" kingdom in all of his uppity glory. Jon will control any remaining armies from Stannis. There will be other conflict on the wall as well. Dorne will support Dany, especially after the Faith, supported by the Lannisters, kills Margery (SP). I like the idea of Brienne being saved from the rope, then put on a mission by Stoneheart, where she has to make some big decision. Ooooooh here's another good one: Arya will find Jaquen H'gar and learn some from him. She'll learn he's Syrio and that Eddard made Syrio vow to protect Arya, which he did. He may even die helping her. I think one of Dany's first tasks will be to destroy the rebellion from the Iron Isles too. And the Boltons....Jon will come down with his army or Harry will take the army from the vale. Bran? Who know what powers he will get from the crow and Coldhands/Benjen.

    Jeeze, we might need another thread for Discussing StarTrooper's predictions!:saurumon: