The Dragon's Three Heads

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Liadan, May 31, 2006.

  1. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    and yet another reason why I never spell check myself.
     
  2. K'shar

    K'shar Darth Pumpkin

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    I agree totally. Use a goddamn spell check for christ sakes.
     
  3. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Me too! And capitalization for god's sake. :p
     
  4. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    great.
    crusader.
    it goes like this.

    plot is a machine. or so to say, a living thing eith it's depths et cetera, as you said. it has it's details, and so. but, if you have a carachter that seems to be a MAIN carachter, in this case the one that has a chapter named after him or her (so to say), there HAS to be something more to him. if i went on now, i would just start retyping my post up there... you read it one more time, if you want.

    about useless things. yes, they are needed, that's why you have them. a whole bunch of them. but making more and more of them would also make the good story bad. i guess you agree with me. to some extent they give depth, but too much of that is bad enough.

    as much as i read what you're trying to tell me, the more i see that we are claiming the alomst same thing, just in different words.

    playing the devil's advocate...
    are you a lawyer or something? barrister perhaps?
    :devilbat:

    sorry for the patronizing. it wasn't my intention, honestly.
     
  5. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Ahaha, now to use my debating prowess and turn your point in my favour!!!!

    Too much detracts from the story as a whole yes, but this works more my way than yours if you'll allow me to explain. Simply put, there are more irrelevent things in this world to one particular thing than there are relevant ones. To a story, the characters and their action are relevent but theres the rest of the world that isnt. You have to pile a story full of enough useless titbits to create a realistic world, which any good writer will do.

    BUT too much details to the centre plot is going to detract more than too many little nuances to the world. This is why im arging the point 'because there has to be more to characters' I'll admit, in some areas I am fond of the 'less is more' train of thought, breathing too much plot into characters just doesnt seem real, you need to add depth to define a character and a story but go too far and it detract from everyhting as a whole, like you were saying. Jon snow is realistic for a character where he is, he doesnt need to be part of the three heads to be any better a character, his story already is sufficient. That doesnt mean it wont, just that it doesnt HAVE to be.

    Which is exaclty one of my arguements about the tyrell/martell thing, its unneccesary extravagance that detracts rather than adds to the story, in the end its a judgement call on what is and isnt, and I you know where my judgement puts these things.




    and apology accepted about patronising, i know it wasnt your intention, I just dont react well to that (its the kyrptonite to my arrogance).

    And no I'm not a lawyer or a Barrister, I'm just fond of arguing with vigour.
     
  6. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    now you just repeated my words in a different word orther. :D

    ok.
    it's all true. however (i'm sick of BUTs so i'll use a HOWEVER for a change) there is a slight gradation amogn main carachters. there are those that are more main and those that are less main. get it now? that's the main reason why i'm trying to say that there'll be something more to jon. why i firmly believe it. he is already realistc, but all of them are.

    the same thing goes for bran: why would he have those dreams? just to have them? all of his brothers and sisters do, but his are more intense. besides, there is that man eith that black hand that caught samwell back there... i can't remember how they called him, you know of whom i speak.

    what i'm saying are just presumptions, but there is certain facts that indicate them to be correct.

    how about, let's say, aemon targaryen.
    would you say for him as well that he is a carachter placed here only to add depth to the plot?
     
  7. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    I understand them, but all the characters that have more have the trademakrs of it, Bran is following his dreams, the end is uncertain,

    Dany is aiming to conquer westeros, and working towards that.

    Arya is doing her thing is bravos.


    All the characters that have more have tell tale signs to them. they dont NEED more but we know theyll get more. Jon doesnt need to be anything more than he is but he can still go another way, get it?

    Also he has no other trademark signs of progression, he is lord commander, he has already shown he is devoted to his oaths, Show me the signs that say he is going on to do greater things other than the nature of his birth, everything else says he is a man of the nights watch (as he often repeats).



    Aemon (Maester aemon fromt he wal right?) is there for a lot of reasons, for the revelations about dany he says when he is dying, but before that he is a deep character than adds to the detail of the story. He adds insight about old town and the citadel, and provides another character for the nights watch.
     
  8. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    i get what you're saying, and i'm saying the exact same thing. nothing is ABSOLUTELY certain, i would be a fool to say that (if i by some case do, then it's just to emphasize), if anything- because i can't read author's mind to know. i can only guess, more or less accurately.

    about jon.
    i believe that there will be something more because of the book's name. i guess i explained it to you? song of ICE and FIRE? then, because of his history... him being ned's bastard, and the way ned's treating him specially is sort of strange- ned is taking care of jon, but not of his mother, nor has he ever taken care of his mother. then we have lyanna's words PROMISE ME NED, and her potential relationship to jon... we have the woolf that came to jon, that is different than any other woolves, plus he is dumb. and the fact that he FOUND the woolf, of course. it could all suggest nothing, of course, but many of these things still (at this point of plot development) do not make sense. i tried to explain them in other light, and by now it all points out jon.
    i had something more, but i can't remember it at the moment.

    what i wanted to tell you about aemon (yes, you got the right one). i had the very same discussion about him with a friend of mine few months ago, before we both read the feast for crows. you see, she claimed him to be ONLY that insight-and-depth-adding carachter, and i firmly believed that there will be something more out of him. and there was: that very revelation about stannis not being the flaming and blazing king chosen by fire, but daenerys.
    i concluded that from him being targaryen, and so very old. because, martin could have as well placed an old stark there, right? but he chose a targaryen.

    get my point?
     
  9. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    No, no, no, and NO! As I mentioned before, there are days when I can make myself read posts with bad grammar, spelling, and capitalization. But not today.

    I did, however, catch one comment.

    You don't react well to anything unless it's adding to your ego. :rolleyes: :p
     
  10. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    does it mean that you don't catch my poing? :confused:

    i took me a bit time to get used to his way of writing which is rather astonishing, but now i'm used to it... i have no problems with it...
    it just adds to his personality.
    :halo:
     
  11. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Omega, don't tell me about getting used to his way of writing. I've been RPGing with him for almost a year and a half now. Most days, I can make myself read his posts. But there are some days when I simply can't force myself to go through the innumerable typos. -.-
     
  12. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Im just too lazy to spellcheck.
     
  13. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    my fair lady, i don't know...
    i guess i'll have one of those deays as well... but they just didn't come yet...

    but it's okay for me to read his posts... don't know...
    they make him who he is.
    would you really want him to become on of the crowd? that bloody mistakes make him unique.
    :devilbat:
    roflmao.
     
  14. K'shar

    K'shar Darth Pumpkin

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    The 2 of you should be forced to use spellcheck before posting anything. It really is infuriating
     
  15. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Lol, they should. Sorry to say, but I don't really even read the posts now, I skim to save my eyes. :p
     
  16. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    arre mi posts allso ful of speling mastakes?
    no kidding now. i'm not aware that i commit them, if i do... sorry for that. since i'm not from an english-speaking country, i guess you'd understand. i hope.
     
  17. K'shar

    K'shar Darth Pumpkin

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    We understand why. We just don't care cuz were ignorant english speaking bastards.
     
  18. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I agree completely with Ny and K'shar.

    And Omega, I know that it's harder if you're not a native English-speaker, but reading over your posts is a good idea. No one's expecting it to read perfectly, but spending a couple seconds to look over for obvious mistakes would make it easier on everyone else. :) Besides which, it's actually a TFF rule to at least attempt to write "proper" posts (it's my siggy, actually.)

    Also, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there's an edit function for your posts. I've seen that sometimes, you have two or three posts in a row...
     
  19. K'shar

    K'shar Darth Pumpkin

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    yep. click edit and then fix away, add more, go back and totally rewrite it or delete it. good stuff
     
  20. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    got it all. thanks.
    i just don't remember to edit them, but i'll do it now. no problem. thanks guys.