Taim

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by Turin, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I often wonder about Taim while reading the books, and with a question that came up in another thread I thought it would make a good discusion. Do you think that Taim is one of the forsaken (Demandred)? Why or why not?
     
  2. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Taim is definently up there with my favourite characters, he's so mysterious, we know so little about him. Is he one of the Forsaken though ? I don't know, one of his Asha'man made it clear he'ss not in WH, something about "First receiving orders from Ishamael, then later on from Demandred." And if the theory about Demandred BEING Taim, rather than posing as him, is true, then wouldnt his own personal Asha'man be able to tell they were just receiving orders from their M'Hael ? And wouldn't Taim (If he were Demandred) know that Dashiva was Osan'gar ?

    Plus, Demandred frequented the Forsaken meetings, wouldn't people realize Taim was constantly leaving for no reason, and sensing the saidin used to Travel ?

    I believe that Mazrim Taim is either a badass with his own reasons for doing things, like Fain, or is under the tutelege of one of the Forsaken - most likely Demandred.

    But then again, I could be very wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2004
  3. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    OK, here's my 2 cents on those observations.

    1. Taim could easily travel to the Forsaken meetings, and return shortly. Being in the black tower and all I don't think that the use of Saidin would set off any alarms. They also do lots of travelling for recruiting, etc. so his absence might be explainable.

    2. If he is indeed one of the Forsaken then he undoubtedly is familiar with compulsion, so whatever orders he/Demandred gave could be twisted in the minds of the Asha'Man to fit his designs.

    3. As far as Demandred/Taim not knowing the identity of Osan'Gar, well that is a good question, however, we all know that the forsaken are very secretive about things, perhaps there was some disguise?

    Now, I'm not sold on the idea that he is indeed Demandred, but here are my reasonings to the possibility.

    1. When he was brought to 'The Farm' by Rand and he embraced the OP, Rand felt that he was nearly as strong as Rand himself. Not that someone other than a Forsaken couldn't be that strong, but Demandred surely is.

    2. He is described as being in his mid-thirties. Since we know that most wilders stumble on the power in their mid to late teens we can assume that Taim has been channeling for nearly twenty years. Odd that he didn't go mad don't you think, since it takes most men just a few years to do so? Possibly an indication that he is tied to the DO?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  4. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Valid points, and Taim says when he first comes to Rand in Caemyln that he has used Compulsion before. I think he's shadow-trained, maybe the Dark One has him in mind for the top Dreadlord, with the Last Battle approaching and all.

    If he is shadow-trained, most likely by Demandred, it would explain things like how he knew to Travel before Rand taught him, how he knows how to use Compulsion and why he called them "so-called" Aiel (a bit of Demandred rubbed off on him perhaps ?) among others.
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Did he travel before Rand taught him? I don't remember that. Would a Shadow-Trained darkfriend be tied to the DO, preventing madness from the taint?
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Im pretty sure he knew how to Travel, maybe im wrong...

    We don't really know about male Darkfriends with the ability to channel, so who knows ? Maybe the DO does protect them from the Taint also, id imagine he'd want his followers to be able to serve him, rather than go insane and die.

    So many questions, lets hope Knife Of Dreams answers some of them.
     
  7. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Actually, if I remember correctly Taim was surprised that Rand could travel, and convinced Rand to teach him to quicken the process of finding other male channelers. This, of course, could of been a deceptive act, but I think I'm going to side with Taim not knowing how to travel.

    My thoughts are that he is not Demandred, but just another darkfriend and male channeler of this age who perhaps was taught by a forsaken. If he rose high enough in the ranks of Darkfriends, surely the Dark One would see the purpose of preventing him from going mad.

    Now using the assumption that Taim is just another darkfriend who can channel, I am reminded of an incident in one of the earlier books (TSR, perhaps?). Nynaeve and Elayne had captured some sisters of the Black Ajah, and when trying to discover their plots one of them revealed that the Black Ajah wanted to catch Taim and disguise him as Rand, proceeding to cause turmoil in the westren lands where Rand had not made contact yet. Of course, this plot never really came into action, but perhaps that had been the Dark Ones intention with Taim. Just in the end, the Dark One found a better use for Taim: to become allied with Rand, then turn on him.
     
  8. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    And with an army of Asha'man no less ! Rand's in for some serious trouble with that fella, hopefully Logain can help sort it out. IMO thats the "glory" Min speaks of, he'll defeat Taim and reclaim the Black Tower.
     
  9. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Okay, i just found that Taim DIDN'T know how to Travel, Rand taught him but he apparently learnt very quickly, and he did use Compulsion (LoC, Ch 2, A New Arrival) on two of Bashere's men. When and how did he learn this ? Any theories ? I think Demandred or Ishamael taught him.
     
  10. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

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    Ok, I could be totally off, because I just cant remember exactly what happened, but what if Taim is Asmodean? If I remember, he just kind of disapeared, and no one knows what happened. Or he could have died, and been reincarnated by the DO. He would know Rand best of all the Forsaken, and if the shield that Lanfear wove on him wore off, he would be back to his usual strength.

    Granted, I am only on book 9 right now, so there may have been something that happened since then, or that I am forgetting that would make that not possible, but it does seem like it would make sense
     
  11. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Im afraid that wouldn't work out, Asmodean is definently dead, i recall the Dark One saying "Asmodean died the final death" and that the Dark One knows Asmodean betrayed him, so why would he ressurect him ?

    Its a different idea, ill give you that, but I highly doubt it. Im also pretty sure RJ has said that he's dead, we just don't know who did it.
     
  12. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

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    ahh, ok.
     
  13. The Hound

    The Hound The Everlasting Scream

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    Heh, I completely misread this at first. I thought you were questioning wether TAM was Demandred. >_< Good thing I didn't respond until I read the whole time.
     
  14. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Haha, maybe he is, we haven't seen him for awhile ;)
     
  15. highgreener

    highgreener New Member

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    i know that siuan's and leane's Powers weaked but it never did say if Logains Power decreased at all...
     
  16. Demandred

    Demandred Forsaken

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    im pretty sure that it said Logains power never decreased but id have to check and probably wont be bothered
     
  17. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    No, Logain's didn't decrease. It's speculated that a woman needs to heal a man's severing and vice versa. The Aes Sedai stilled at Dumai's wells, were healed later by an Asha'man. They recovered full power.
     
  18. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    The other option is that Flinn is stronger in the Power than Nynaeve and that Nyn was too tired after Healing Logain to Heal Siuan and Leane properly. I don't buy it myself.

    It's likely it must be done by a member of the opposite sex but we have no way of knowing until Flinn (or another man) Heals Gentling.
     
  19. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Do we know that the women Flinn healed didn't lose strength?
     
  20. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Yup. I can't recall an exact quote at the moment but they're definitely back at full strength.