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Discussion in 'Speculation' started by Turin, Oct 18, 2004.

  1. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    OK, I don't have time to post all of my thoughts right now, (Lunch break is almost over :rolleyes: ) but what do you guys think about the final battle? Will it start in KoD? Where will it begin? Do you think Rand will actually have the world united in time?
     
  2. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    I don't think he will have the world totally under his control. I'm thinking he will somehow manage to get the Seanchan to work with him (probably through Mat and Tuon). Because, pretty much every nation is either allied with Rand already, or under Seanchan control.

    I'm saying it will start at the end of Knife of Dreams. Which will be perfect to keep us waiting another year and a half...
     
  3. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Yeah, I agree with Rad. By the end of KoD, Tarmon Gai'don will be under way, and Rand will probably have the whole world united under the Banner Of Light. However, alot of people speculate that Tarmon Gai'don has already begun...
     
  4. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Well, RJ has warned us that the Trollocs are coming. The bulk of the Borderland armies arepresently at the north of Andor. The Trollocs will come howling out of the Blight and swamp the Borderlands (how horrible?). Luckily most of the greatest fighting forces have already moved to safety. TG will most likely take place in Andor, at Caemlyn or Tar Valon or both. We've enough real-world comparisons with Arthurian legends etc. to suggest it (Avalon etc.).

    I think the Trolloc invasion and the reunification of the characters (along with the whole Tower thing and Rand meeting Semi) will be the main thrust of the next book. Possibly it'll be Mat, Tuon and maybe Perrin rescuing Rand. Moiraine may also reappear, perhaps Semi will trap Rand in the ToG (hey, this is speculation!). Anyway, by the end, the Trollocs, other Shadowspawn and new Dreadlords will be poised in the Borderlands, maybe they'll have extended a bit further south, the company will be together again and the BT will have been sorted out too. This may not all happen in KoD, it could take the first half of the last book too (I can't see even Jordan managing to stretch TG out to 1000 pages).

    So, Rand will have the support of the Seanchan, probably under Tuon.

    His own armies will be under Mat, Bashere (if he survives...) and possibly Agelmar. Lan may finally lead a group of men but it's unlikely. Perrin will lead the Two Rivers men and the wolves.

    Egwene will have the Aes Sedai under her thumb.

    Logain will be in charge of the BT.

    TG will either start on the last page of KoD or, more likely, half way through the last book (probably called The Last Battle). That is if it hasn't begun already.
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Since we spent nearly that long in the waste with the Aeil, I see it very likely that TG will be a very long thing. :D

    I agree though that it is likely the brunt of the fighting will take place in Andor. There have been references to the importance of that nation more than once in the series. I think it likely that The blight will swarm over the borderlands and funnel down into Andor. Although, I can't see the coast falling to easily with the current Seanchan occupation. It appears that the Seanchan are willing to work with Rand through the final battle, so I assume that they will coordinate their attacks with those loyal to Rand. This would press the Shadow between the spine of the world and the bulk of the Seanchan military. With a combined strike of a massive army of Borderlanders, and massive amounts of Aeil, not to mention the Aes Sedai, Asha'man, Tear, Illian, and everyone else, it should prove to be a bloody fight. YAY!!!

    I like the theory that Logain will lead the Black Tower in the end. I find myself liking that character more and more, I'd like to see him kick Taim's @$$. :D
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Oh, i cannot wait for the Taim/Logain showdown, two of my favourite characters slogging it out with each other.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Yea, I'm hoping for that as well. I wonder though, will there be a split in the Black Tower? Every indication tells us that Taim has his "loyal" followers. I'm guessing that most of them are dark friends.
     
  8. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Almost definitely. Taim has been undermining Rand's authority at every opportunity. He has every full Asha'man bar Logain under his sway. At least some of them are Dfs, probably all of Taim's cabal. I doubt many of the recruits even know they are working for Rand, let alone know his face. It got so bad that Logain felt he had to go directly to Rand about it and it took him a while to manage it.

    There are only two possible outcomes, Taim submits to Rand and it was in fact all a big misunderstanding highlighting their lack of communication or Rand and Logain sweep in to scourge the Black Tower and Taim and his cohorts flee to reappear as the new Dreadlords. Ok, three options, Rand does nothing and they either abscond before TG or betray them at the start of it.

    One more interesting point, Taim has all of the full Asha'man in his cabal and would have kept the Dragon badge from Logain if he could. This means that there could well be Dedicated of sufficient skill to be Asha'man but Taim hasn't promoted them because they're too loyal to Rand.
     
  9. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    The point you made about the Dedicated not being moved up is a good one. It was my thought as well that the only way for one to obtain both pins was to be one of Taims Lackeys. I think we might also assume that there are some with both pins who are weaker than some without, for the same reason.
     
  10. Demandred

    Demandred Forsaken

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    i hate to be the one to do this, but i had an inkling that Suroth was Semiraghe... *waits for this to have holes shot in it*

    so maybe the seanchan will be against Rand in the final book...

    suspect he'll be captured again in the next book. also RJ has said that although he doesnt want it, the series could reach 13 main books... meaning its unlikely TG begins in the next book (KoD)

    just a few thoughts i had while reading *hides*
     
  11. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Not Suroth, Anath. The 'wilful charge' Semirhage refers to as being under her thumb was Tuon, not Liandrin. That's why Anath is in seclusion and Rand is going to meet the DotNM, even though she's away with Mat. She has the male a'dam, taken from Bayle Domon and Egeanin, and is itching to use it.
     
  12. Demandred

    Demandred Forsaken

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    damn, your good at this game.
     
  13. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    One does one's best :D
     
  14. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    OK, here's a thought. If the DO were to break free and enter the world, do we think that the Dragon would be a match for him? Not necessarily Rand, perhaps a better trained, more prepared Dragon. I always viewed The DO as 'Satan" or some version of. And the Creator as a god of good, and the Dragon his champion. Perhaps this view is wrong though. What if the Dragon and the DO are equals so to speak and the Creator is merely sitting by watching the events of his creation play out. This would imply that he is a neutral party.
     
  15. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    No, if the Dark One broke free nothing but the Creator could stop him, and we know that he doesn't intervene. The Dark One is the antithesis of the Creator, not completely equal in power, but definently stronger than anything the world could face.

    The Dragon is the Creator's Champion, and he fights through him, just like the Dark One fights through his champion, Moridin, the Nae'Blis. The idea is that they both use human surrogates to fight.

    Personally, I don't think the Dark One will ever break free. I think it says in the Guide that if he does the Pattern would be destroyed and remade in his image for eternity.
     
  16. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Yup, I agree with EMT. The final showdown will probably be between Moridin, Shaidar Haran and Rand, probably Moridin, then Shaidar Haran. If the DO breaks free in one world he breaks free in all and the Wheel of Time shall be broken and remade in his image. So sayeth the Prophecy.
     
  17. highgreener

    highgreener New Member

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    were does every1 think Tg will take place (the main fight)

    I think, like Egwene said, it might take place at the Tower. I mean..., the "Gaurdians" and the Aes Sedai probable are gonna join together and i have a small huntch that the tower Elaida was building might be for the Men... so it might
     
  18. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Between Caemlyn and Tar Valon. There are waaaaaaaay too many parallels with the Arthurian Legends for it not to happen between the two. Plus you've got Dragonmount, the Black Tower, the Borderland armies, the Rebels, the Seanchan, the Aiel etc. all ranged around there. Plus if you look at the map there's a kind of natural funnel leading from the Blightborder to Tar Valon. It'll be a huge battle though and will cover quite an area.

    ps. This isn't a text message or an IM service, spelling, capitals etc are appreciated. ;)