Swordfighting in movies

Discussion in 'General Weapons & Armour' started by Anduril, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. MagnaMerquise

    MagnaMerquise Borne of Ash...

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    Last Samurai for me had the best sword scenes in any film I have ever seen. That's why it's the best film ever for me :p
     
  2. ThorsThunder

    ThorsThunder New Member

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    What would you guys say the best swordfight scene would be then?
     
  3. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    The final duel in Rob Roy was the best sword fight I have seen in a movie. It was played with such true intensity it felt like they actually WANTED to kill each other. Edge parrying was actually an excepted form using the swords they had, some styles with the claymore taught parrying at the forté, and many small swords like the one the english fop used did not have sharpened edges (this one did though) so you could parry with an unsharpened sword.

    The Last Samurai was good in that there was nothing explicitly bad in it, but I cringed when I saw so many edge parries, especially with the more brittle hardened edge of a japanese katana. I would have hated to see those swords in their unpolished condition after a fight like that.
     
  4. ThorsThunder

    ThorsThunder New Member

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    Ya know, it has been so many years since I have seen that movie that I should rent it. Liam Neeson is a great actor. Yes, thanks Justice.
     
  5. FireSnake

    FireSnake Bhaal Spawn

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    I dont know if any of you have noticed but very often in movies they parry with edge of blade, which as I heard you never do, you always parry with the flat of the blade.
     
  6. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

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    Um, no. Parrying was historically done with both the edge and the flat, dictated by the situation and the type of parry used. The edge can exert greater pressure against the opponent's sword, and is thus used when a hard parry, either a "stop" or forceful deflection of the attack, is desired. The flat is mainly used in softer deflections.

    Contrary to common belief, edge-to-edge contact does not damage a sword, as hard parries are properly with the forte, the half of the blade nearest to the hilt. The forte is obviously not used for much else, so a bit of scarring there does not compromise a sword's fuctionality in any way, especially as blades were often left duller there.

    Many modern reproductions are really rather soft when compared to the better antiques, which of course has affected how some view the issue. Edge parries with a decently hardened sword are entirely valid, however - there are numerous historical treatises that explicitly instruct to do them, and most living European lineages do edge parries as a part of their repertoire as well.

    Rabbe
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2005
  7. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    Edge and flat parries are acceptable in most European techniques. Japanese training (from what I have been told) usually frowns upon edge parries, unless you're referring to the mune, which is softer and less brittle. But in all honesty Japanese swordsmanship is not my forte, my information comes from friends who are well accomplished in Aikido.
     
  8. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    I think the reason Episode I was so much better in terms of swordfighting was not necessarily that the swordsmanship was so good. It was just very fast and they had the great idea of adding more acrobats.

    Don't forget. The fights went too long. The real length of a sword fight in japaneese swords is about the length they are in the japanese film "The Samurai".
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I was thinking that the sword fight in ep III might be too long, but as I read the spoilers there will be lots of variation in it, the style the moves, and the Force powers they use. You could see in ep I that they only tried to hit eachothers blade which made it a bit dull. But when I saw the action of some footage, it's much more agressive. They not only try to fight with their sabers but use their hands and legs to kick and knock each other out. Still it's a pity that this is a star wars movie so probably no blood will be shown. The fighting in ep III is so agressive that unlike the other star wars movies this movie could get a pg-13 rating instead of PG
     
  10. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

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    I pretty much hated the swordplay scenes in the Star Wars films, especially in the two newest episodes. Lots of sparks and people spinning wildly do not a good fencing scene make.

    Rabbe
     
  11. ThorsThunder

    ThorsThunder New Member

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    Yes, too many things taking place can ruin a simple art. Like an action movie with the unoriginal car chase scene. I am sure sword fighting was dramatic for those involved but realistically it would take more than a single slash across ones chest to kill immediately unless it was an extraordinarily accurate blow. This is why I think Lord of the Rings suffered some in the fighting. Too many one blow kills. I think rightfully the orcs should have tore them apart.
     
  12. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Star Wars takes place in an alternate universe where Jedi & Sith use the Force to boost their powers and reflexes. I enjoy them for what they are, but I hate seeing that sort of wire fighting moves in "real" sword movies. It's chalk and cheese. Lightsaber fights and sword fights take place in two totally different universes, with different laws of gravity and physics etc. Comparing them is really a waste of time.
     
  13. ThorsThunder

    ThorsThunder New Member

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    Yes, I agree. Star wars is definately different. Plus, a lightsaber would be capable of mortal damage in one strike.
     
  14. R. Laine

    R. Laine New Member

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    Quite so - the kind of stage or film combat one likes is obviously a matter of preference.
     
  15. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    Saying that Star Wars physics are different (as far as gravity goes) is a little extreme. But I agree that just the fact that they are Jedi gives you the feeling that they could possibly do a flip in mid fight and get away with it. The only problem is, I know that if my coach went up against Obi Wan, that old guy would be Kenobi pretty bad unless Obi Wan used the force on him of course.

    As for a one hit kill, it doesn't take much to put you out of a battle. Honestly, if you hit someone across the chest and brake their ribs, how concerned about them are you going to be? And a little side note: My coach once calculated the pounds per square inch on a hit from a sword and it came to being higher than a .45.
     
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    There you go again comparing real world with a fantasy movie universe. A human is just a human, but someone with Jedi powers uses them constantly in every aspect of combat ie battlefield awareness, heightened reflexes, stronger muscles etc. It'd be like a totally untrained peasant taking on a veteran warrior in armed combat.

    I'm sure your coach is a great fighter against other humans from planet earth, but you can't compare Connor McLeod to Obi Wan Kenobi to Rob Roy to Anduril's Coach.
     
  17. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    well it's actually in star wars a combination of knowledge of the Force and lightsaber skills...if you are stronger in the Force you can see the moves before they happen that way you can easily block a lightsaber. Take Qui-Gon who was concentrating until he was hit in the face which he couldn't forsee, he was out of concentration and Maul stabs him immediatly. Obi-Wan fights with concentration and his skill in lightsaber combat, but his downfall was turning his concentration into anger. Luckily he concentrates again and makes a giant leap striking Maul immediatly down in half. In the fight with Count Dooku, I would say it is about human strength even if they are both Jedi, Obi-Wan wasn't able to block Count Dooku's saber anymore. He lost strenght and concentration which caused him to get wounded and fall.

    Anakin attacks in anger and doesn't use much concentration. You also need more concentration in the Force when you are fighting with two sabers, that is why the second one was cut. The weird thing is when Anakin fights with one saber he pauses and it looks like he lets Dooku chop his arm off. Yoda is very skilled in both the Force and in lightsaber technique, which explains why he was able to block every move Dooku made. But he didn't want to kill Dooku, cause I think Yoda could have easily strike him down.

    Vader and Obi-Wan in A new Hope are both in perfect concentration and blocking every move they make...It would be an endless fight if Obi-Wan didn't sacrifice himself. Luke doesn't use a lot of concentration and also a bit of his anger, which explains why he was no match for Vader altho he sometimes was able to suprise Vader cause he concentrates more doing the opposite what Vader tell him to do, use his hatred his anger, but he didn't in the beginning. Luke concentrates in the entire fight in empire but he's not very skilled and Vader is.

    In Return of the Jedi, again Vader is very skilled and blocks every move, but so does Luke cause he is more skilled in lightsaber combat and concentrating in the Force. It would again be an endless fight, if Vader didn't tempt him to fight, cause Luke refuses to fight, but the temptation gets so high, that Luke uses his anger and vader his concentration to block him. But Luke's anger is too strong for Vader. Vader could have killed him, but he didn't want to, cause he wanted Luke to be his apprentice. That became his downfall.
     
  18. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    Theoretically speaking, of course. ;)
     
  19. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    D'uh:p It's all fiction of course if you didn't know :rolleyes:
     
  20. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    What?! Boy, Anakin, for a sec there I thought you were trying to spread that lie that's been going around about Star Wars not really taking place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

    P.S. Since you seem to be the expert on Star Wars here, maybe you could answer a question for me. What if a jedi drops his lightsaber when it's still on? Does it go through the floor and keep going till it reaches the planet core? Or does it just turn off when it leaves the jedi's hand.

    P.P.S. How come the Jedi use two hands for fighting with a lightsaber. If the blade is just energy, it would be kind of like holding a flashlight and I would imagine the fights to be very very fast? But then again, Darth Vader sometimes fights with one hand.

    P.P.P.S. About Bob Anderson fighting a Jedi, it was Anderson who was doing the fighting as Vader in Episodes V and VI.
     
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