Survivalism

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Foinikas, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    It brings to mind the famous, and very accurate George Bernard Shaw quote, "If all the economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion."


    The only economist you should take advice from is a very wealthy one. And even then, they are usually wrong.
     
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    You'll die of a heart attack, or cancer, perhaps a stroke, an automobile accident, slip in the shower... or any of a hundred common causes of death. But you will not have to worry about the end of the world or falling off the 'grid' due to an economic collapse. The current unemployment rate in Spain is already higher than it ever was in the United States during the Great Depression, and Spain will survive.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    S.J. Faerlind - hmm I've not heard of anything like the 100 mile diet (that scale is possibly a bit big for the UK ;)) but I'm sure that there are some initiatives setup to promote local produce farming. We've still got quite a few farmers markets and there are a few self sufficient farming setups and farmers shops dotted around, so if you hunt it down you can get your food more fresh from the source.
    It's a little harder though, since many of those types of food access rely upon smaller shops and sadly many smaller shops have hit hard times - supermarkets moving into an area will kill their custom and when you then mix in rising rates and business costs many sink (or wind up being bought out by the supermarket and owned that way which means their produce likely ends up coming from the supermarkets own central stocks).

    You could still buy and freeze/preserve many of the food stuffs if you want - space would be an issue so its likely something you'd see more in the country or in the detatched housing areas of towns than you would in crowded urban areas (like it or not if you're putting down stocks you've got to have space for them). I guess one limit is that many modern houses don't have a natural "Pantry" built into them - that is a natural cool room for food storage. We've become very attached to fridges sitting in the same room as the kitchen so a naturally shaded room all day has fallen off the radar for most modern housing.
     
  4. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Space for food storage is an issue for a lot of urban people I suppose, no matter where you live. Large freezers and glass jars take up a ton of space, especially in a tiny apartment. Approximately what percentage of the population is urban over there?
     
  5. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Hmm I've no idea of the values (quick googling says 80% urban) but its certainly a lot more living in the built up urban areas over the countryside. Space is somewhat of an issue in the UK with an ever expanding population from natural growth and immigration. Housing infill has become very popular in many smaller rural communities as has building on flood plains (with all the associated problems that come with that ;))
     
  6. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    well a lot of people live in houses in US... thus they can afford stocking... you're right one cannot do that in an apartment...
     
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes they can stock food if they so desire.
    A two week's worth of canned food and fresh water would take up very little space.


    And again, there are so many other things to worry about that actually might effect a person... you're about 100x more likely to die of a stroke than ever you will of starving to death. Isn't that a bit ironic... you guys probably are eating crap that clogs your arteries and reduces your life expectancy, yet you're more than willing to worry about starving.


    Don't be silly, and don't give in to silly fears.
     
  8. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    Like me, flying next Tuesday, which is 9.11? :D
     
  9. frogdude

    frogdude Member

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    What you're talking about here isn't survivalism, it's prepping. Many people are into both, but they're different things. Survivalism is about learning to "live off the land" - hunting & trapping, foraging shelter building, finding fresh water in a wilderness setting etc etc. My interest in survivalism goes as far as watching Ray Mears on TV.

    I am however a small scale prepper, and make sure i have at least 6 weeks worth of food in reserve. The way the economy is at the moment i know i could be out of work and left with no income without warning, and i like to know that i could feed my family for a few weeks until i get myself sorted. I also have a few days of water stocked, since a few years ago when the mains water in my area was deemed "unsafe" (little bugs swimming in it) and people were queuing in the streets filling bottles from tankers.

    I know some people take it to extremes, but to each their own. I prepare for what i see as realistic, and opinions vary about what that is.

    As for being more likely to die from a stroke, than from hunger... definitely... and i do what i can to prepare for that (options are fairly limited though). More likely to have a stroke than find myself unemployed though? Nope. Around 120,000 strokes per year in the UK compared to a redundancy rate of around 100,000 per month.
     
  10. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    lol - I had the chance to have that pleasure!... Never thought of it, but I return on Monday >.>

    Naw, I'm pretty sure survivalism is more about preparing for survival in apocalyptic situations... Not much good living off the land after an atomic bomb drops...

    Hmmm... how about a bank account with money in it to keep you going for, say, a month? A year?
     
  11. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    That my friend is very true.Generally the idea of Survivalism is not bad.But it requires a lot of money,studying and preparation.Of course it's about what you're preparing for and for how long.There are people in USA who are preparing for entire years of complete social breakdown or war but there are others who are simply preparing for some kind of a
    short-time disaster.Gathering some food,some weapons or money isn't bad.But a lot of people tend to overdo it.I remember seeing a video on youtube about some guy in the United States of America who had gathered like....I don't know...half a dozen guns and rifles?You see that guy having pistols,semi-automatics,assault rifles,hunting rifles....and you're starting to wonder if some people are really ok in the brain.Because there's one thing preparing for a tornado or hurricane like Katrina and another thing preparing to fight Godzilla.
     
  12. frogdude

    frogdude Member

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    You can call it whatever you like, but to the people who are into this stuff there's a big difference. I'm a member of a prepping forum, and the "survivalism hobby" is largely treated as a joke.

    Savings? Yep, i do as much as i can of that too. But with food prices constantly on the rise it makes sense to me to stock up a little extra now. There's no way of knowing what savings will be worth down the line. Some of what i have in my cupboards was bought for a third of what it costs now, and it could so easily double or triple in price in another 6 months.
     
  13. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    VS

    All points on a continuum of belief..... :)
    This is an interesting discussion!
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Where the heck do you live that inflation is so out of control?

    Inflation in the United States is running at about 1.4%... for the year. Over the past decade yearly inflation has never been higher than 4.5%. Not to mention that interest rates have never been lower.
     
  15. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I quite like the idea of self-sufficiency which could really pay off if some sort of disaster hits but then you think of the amount of work involved in say a smallholding with crops, livestock & having to comply wiith all the (Uk) Defra rules that go with it and I think... "the supermarkets just down the road" :D

    Is it even possible nowadays, in a developed country, to truly live 'off-grid' but have access to education system / health care and not fall foul of the legal /taxation systems etc?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  16. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Sure it is. We have some people locally who actually do it. There are people who've come up with some very creative solutions for becoming self-sufficient actually. They build extremely energy efficient homes (for example straw bale houses: http://www.chrismagwood.ca), Use solar panels and wind turbines to generate their own electricity, storing it in deep cycle batteries in the basement. For heating they use things like masonry heaters (http://www.mha-net.org/) or geothermal heating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heating) to heat their homes. Some of them even grow their own food. They still have jobs and incomes and pay their taxes in spite of all that.

    I think that it would be way easier to do in a community of like-minded people rather than doing it on your own though. The communities of "old order mennonites" we have over here are a good example. They reject most forms of modern technology (like electricity) and live like they did "back in the day". If you live near one of their communities you can see them driving into town in their horse-drawn buggies. :) They also ride bikes a lot, sell maple syrup, eggs and flowers at their farm gates to supplement their incomes and you can even hire work crews of them to do repairs to your house or barn. They're an extreme example, but a living one nonetheless.
     
  17. frogdude

    frogdude Member

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    On the edge of the Eurozone - which is a lot closer to financial collapse than the news would have you believe. Here, the official rate of inflation as set by the central banks has little in common with the true rate (ie the cost of living). The price of bread and milk has gone up nearly 50% this year (having already shot up the previous year), partly due to soaring fuel costs (we pay the equivalent of $10 a gallon for petrol). People in Greece are already queuing at food banks and there's not enough to go round, Spain and Portugal aren't far behind, Ireland probably next.
     
  18. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Some queue in food banks but things aren't that bad in Greece yet.I think that people in America think more of survivalism than in any other country in the world I guess...