Staves

Discussion in 'Fantasy Weapons and Armour' started by Doombringer, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Doombringer

    Doombringer The End of All Things

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    I think everyone should wait until the final UC staves are out before crying "inaccuracy!"

    Honestly, when the guy compared the crown of the UC staff to the movie staff on the first page of this thread, he didn't even realize that the two pics were from entirely different angles (front/back). Oy.

    I don't think UC will goof on this. It doesn't make sense for them to not make a 100% accurate prop (save for them having to halve them for shipping purposes).
     
  2. gandalf23

    gandalf23 The White Wizard

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    i agree and am hoping that the final replica will not be like the pic shown. i do not think that UC will do that, i just wanted to make a point.
    Besides if you look at the two comparison pics on the first page, it doesnt matter if they are from a different angle, if you look enough you can see that they are different...

    neways i think that the staff pics are just renderings from artist, just like many of the swords and UC will improve on the final version.
     
  3. Foe Hammer

    Foe Hammer Gûd Daedheloth

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    I too hope it's just a pre-production rendering, but just so I'm not disappointed I'll wait to see an actual product before I order either of them. trust me, I know all about pre-production renderings/sample/prototypes and how different they can be from final production pieces.
     
  4. Doombringer

    Doombringer The End of All Things

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    Here, here is the comparison.

    The UC version is shown from the "front" with the vertical spike in the back.

    The movie pic is from the "back" with the full vertical spike visible.

    It's accurate. Sheesh. :p
     

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  5. Foe Hammer

    Foe Hammer Gûd Daedheloth

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    No it's not. The spike on top can be seen from any side. It's not on the UC version. It is on the movie prop. :)
     
  6. Foe Hammer

    Foe Hammer Gûd Daedheloth

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    To try and clarify: If you ignore the decorative lattice work and focus on the four main supports, they come to a point at the very top of the staff. On the UC version they simply stop and do not form a point.
     
  7. gandalf23

    gandalf23 The White Wizard

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    exactly Foe Hammer, i agree with you 100%... but there is only 3 points and i think you meant to say that (not 4). considering it is a triangular shape there are 3 sides, and they all form a point at the top. as well as the lattice work forming a point.

    i am not trying to get anyone mad here i just wanted to make a point in that as of right now the staff is not accurate to the movie prop...i am sure UC will come out with the appropriate design...

    I guess you just have to take a look at different movie pics to see the difference...
     
  8. Foe Hammer

    Foe Hammer Gûd Daedheloth

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    Yes, thank you gandalf23, I did mean 3 not 4. I am going crazy with numbers right now doing econometrics homework. :(
    "i am not trying to get anyone mad here i just wanted to make a point in that as of right now the staff is not accurate to the movie prop...i am sure UC will come out with the appropriate design..."
    Yes, these are my sentiments exactly. :)
     
  9. Elladan

    Elladan Son of Elrond

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    So, does anyone have any concrete info on when the staffs are coming out?
     
  10. Saruman

    Saruman New Member

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    To prove the inaccuracy of the Saruman staff...
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    If you compare the bottom of the staff in these pics you'll see the UC version is actually wrong!
     

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  11. swordsman

    swordsman New Member

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    Ok Saruman, I don't thin anyone here is arguing about if the end is flat or not. Your point has been well made. But the bottom line is that United has chosen to make these reproductions in the form you see, I doubt they will change in the middle of the production run. For what ever reasons they had or have, which could be many they are still some of the finest and best representations of Lord of the Rings Weapons and Armour out there. United tries its best to be as close as possible to the props, but sometimes things get modified for many reasons, tooling, Manufacturing processes, not to mention maybe New Line cinema made the request to make them flat on the ends, who knows why they are not pointed. If you are set on having one exact then I suggest you purchase one of the custom ones out there and not buy the one United is going to release. But be prepared to pay double or even triple what UC intends to charge for these. The choice is yours but the way the Staff will be made is United's
     
  12. Elladan

    Elladan Son of Elrond

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    Swordsman, I know you're trying to put things in perspective, and that's OK. But in reality, a deviation like this is puzzling, to say the least.

    In my experience, United Cutlery's reproductions have never had to stray from the actual movie versions. Aside from the little defects expected in any mass-produced product, their reproductions have always been spot-on accurate compared to the actual thing.

    Thus, it's confusing why something as non-dangerous as the point on Saruman's staff tip would not make its way into production.

    I really, really, REALLY wish Kit would show up and enlighten us, because now I'm all confused.
     
  13. swordsman

    swordsman New Member

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    All I know is that if I were a betting man I bet United would have no reason not to have made it the way the prop is and most likly wanted to but for some law rule or production problem could not..Case in point. United wanted to make the Bows that are confirmed for release and wanted to make them functional. However New Line Cinima said no.... cant argue with that.
     
  14. Witchking

    Witchking Undead Ringer

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    I can understand that - if someone were to get shot by one imagine the lawsuits United would be getting.
     
  15. Doombringer

    Doombringer The End of All Things

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    Hmm. Very strange, that they would change Saruman's staff like that...

    I guess we'll all see what's cooking when they actually come out. Or when Kit stops by.
     
  16. Lord of the Valar

    Lord of the Valar New Member

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    I prefer Saruman's staff. I will definately be adding it to my movie prop/replica collection.
     
  17. Greychalice

    Greychalice New Member

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    Oh, if i can make a point here about Gandalf's staff that i noticed nobody mentioned: The Crown of the staff is solid METAL casted while the shaft is solid WOOD, so it's not a whole solid wood staff, but I'm getting one anyways and I can't wait! And does anyone know where I can buy them at the cheapest price, thanks
     
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  18. Ender

    Ender New Member

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    Graychalice, I sent you a Private Message of the cheapest place I could find for the staffs. I do not post or mention the place on the board because I don't want to get in trouble again. Hope it helps.
     
  19. nasnandos

    nasnandos New Member

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    It's good to see that a discussion about one of the things I care so much about, accuracy. I'll throw in my two cents about this. It is impossible to completely replicate every shape on the movie props exactly as they are on the props due to many factors, one of which is simply the limitaion of how to make a part release from a mold. I won't get into boring technical detail on this, but I'll just say it is not an easy task, and takes up quite a bit of the engineering time in the develpoment of theseproducts. We try to make these as accurate as we possibly can given the limitations of modern mass production methods and the desired selling price.

    Saruman's Staff - The only change made to Gandalf's staff is that the original prop has an oval shaped hand blown glass ball. We can not make a production glass ball in an oval shape that wil stay in tolerance and fit in the metal crown consistantly so the choice was made to go with a round ball. We compensated by increasing the diameter of our ball to be in between the length and width of the oval prop.

    As far as the pointed staff, sorry, but we are right on this. I have the prop and it does not have a ring or pointed tip. I was given a blue screen photo from New Line about three years ago (attached) that showed this feature and was concerned that it did not match my prop. I went to the best resource to clarify this, the film. In the Gandalf/Saruman battle in FOTR the staff clearly has no point or ring but is made exactly as we are making it. I assume the prop was a version with a collapsible tip that retracted into the shaft used for the fight sequence but I received no clarification on this detail from New Line. Perhaps it is from the Saruman scenes cut from ROTK? We'll have to wait and see.

    Gandalf's staff - The crown on this was a nightmare to figure out how to cast. It cannot be shaped exactly as the prop is made, but the points some here are making about the differences are wrong. There are actually six points at the top on the movie prop, all the same height. Ours has six as well. Sometimes the Urethane props don't hold thier shape the same from scene to scene in the films. Our prop was a bit sloppy in this area too. The angle of the photo is a factor too. There is a difference but you would have to see the UC version and he prop side by side to notice it. If I get some ime I'll post some oix of for those who are interested.

    There are other challenges involved in this process, like the fact that there are some props of the same sword that have huge shape differences in different scenes of the films, like Herugrim, where they apparently made changes to the pommel shape so it could be used in combat easier, after our prop was made. We had to make the changes based on revised prop photos. The Legolas white scabbard/ brown scabbard color is another example. Neither was actually seen in the film. The prop we have is the brown version. The prevailing photos released are the white version, so everyone will naturally think we made the wrong one.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2004
  20. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    Thanks so much for the info Kit! Keep up the good work! I've been impressed with all the replicas so far and I sure the Staves will look AWESOME in person! Before we get to riled up about the decision to make Saruman's Staff with a flat bottom lets wait (I know its hard) and see what it looks like in person when it released.