Star Wars on Blu-Ray

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Cascador, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Just as long as the original originals still remain on DVD (blueray might be the future, but its darn slow getting there ;)) I'll be happy. Honestly there are times when director polishing can take something and improve it (for example Aliens 3 was dramatically improved with the added directors content) and times when, like with Starwars, where its clear that the original magic is lost.

    I think we all knew this when he had both the new Jabba the Hutt scene in the original and the greedo seen. The Jabba scene at the Falcon was painful, not least because the digital Jabba was clearly not Jabba (totally different looks); and then the Greedo scene is just -- well - painful.

    I do feel bad that George is trying to polish something for the better and is failing; I don't want to hate him for it, but he darn well makes it hard not to with the strange changes he puts in. A part of me feels that most of them are just either showoff changes (we can do this with our studio gear) or changes for the sake of changes because marketing says if you put them in more people will buy it.
     
  2. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Hey, I love those movies in a different way than you. And it's not blind love because there are things I don't like either, changes I don't like.... But they are his movies and I stand by the saying 'Art is never finished, only abandoned'. You know that you are in a small minority of people who can't stand the changes. On the internet it seems like the majority doesn't like it, but in reality they either don't care or like them mostly. It's all about personal preference. And I'm not going to whine over something I don't have a hand in, but at least can appreciate as an observer. If you don't like it don't buy it... It's as simple as that. Stop complaining and watch the originals on DVD. They are still there... Why are you complaining...
     
  3. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Because Papa-Lucas is destroying his own masterpiece!!!IT'S MMMMMMMMMMMMMMADDDDDNNNNEEEESSS!!!
     
  4. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    One of the marks of a great/good artist is learning when to step back from the work and call it finished - to take the hand away and let it stand without alteration. Otherwise you can very easily get in there and start seeing imperfections where they are not - changing for the sake of changing alone and (often) working out the unique aspects and building even more toward structured "proper" norms of presentation.

    Yes indeed whilst the originals are still out there one can still watch them without fuss of the new developments, though I wonder how history will view Lucas - a directing artist who perhaps came back a little too late to the series and who was maybe too influenced by others or didn't know when best to step back to call something finished.
     
  5. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    I like the two opposing views here on how the owner of a work should behave once it is completed.
    Some pieces of "Art" could do with a (total) rework (i.e Vanilla Ice albums and so on :p), but most are best left alone to represent their place in time and the society of their day.
    I always recall the South Park episode where Lucas and Spielberg redo "Raiders of the Lost Ark" complete with ewoks etc in it, and it ends with the thought conveyed that the work belongs to the public who pay to watch/own it and are responsible for its success, rather than the creator of it.
    Imagine if John Lennon decided to revamp the White album, while he was under Yoko Ono's control!! or something similar.
    Just my two cents.
     
  6. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I can just see what he's trying to do. Some changes are for improvement or to restore back what he originally envisioned. He said he wasn't truly happy with the orignal trilogy and you can surely expect more changes. One of the most drastic change you would see is the Death Star not being destroyed in the first film. That's not how he wanted it. Is it bad to go to what you really envisioned but the limits of technology couldn't make it so? It's like a painting half finished still you have to show it the world... I don't think any artist would be happy. It may look finished to you, but not to him. And his finished painting may look worse than his half-finished painting but that is his vision, and it is his painting. I can also see that he's trying to connect the prequel trilogy more with the original, inserting creatures you only saw in the prequel trilogy now in the original. For example another change is that you see a dug walking in Jabba's palace. Subtle changes and the 'No' is just more in character to who Anakin was in the prequel trilogy, because now we know what he was actually like. For me that is also only a subtle change and I respect that.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I
    Goodbye Star Wars....

    That's not how he wanted it?It was his movie,he should have made it how he wanted it,not do it another way and wonder about it 30 years later.


    Sure let's change every classic moment in the history of cinema:

    "It's alive!It's alive!"-> MOMMY I DID IT! Gives more "happiness" to the character in order to make Dr.Frankestein look really happy about his achievement.

    "Frankly my dear,I don't give a damn!"->"Frankly my dear,I don't give a f***!" Makes the character look more badass.

    "Here's Johnny!"->"Boo!" Adds to the horror.

    How about dubbing all the early 20th century films without sound?Take the lines and have actors talk on top of Charlie Chaplin?


    If Lucas wanted to make a brand new Episode IV or V or VI he should have just remade the entire trilogy with new actors and FX.Not torture the old one and disfiguring it.
     
  8. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    The reason he destroyed the Death Star in the first movie is because he didn't know that the movie was going to be a success. So he didn't know whether he could have continued his story in the sequels he had planned. Whether he could make them was based on the success of the movie and he had no idea what it was going to be, so he played it safe and did destroy it, so that the movie would almost be like a stand-alone movie. But that is not what he originally planned. He wanted the Death Star to be a threat in all three movies, which is why he brought it back in the last film. If it wasn't blown up it would have approached Hoth and the rebels would have escaped it again. Then the rest of the film would likely be the same, while they plan another attack on the Death Star in the last film.
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I can certainly see how the first film is far more stand alone in appearance and presentation than the two sequel films and I could see how the Death Star would remain active (and actually wouldn't be as cheesy as the whole one little rocket down a tube blew the whole thing up).

    However I think when an author or director finishes a film - for whatever reasons - its often best to say "That's it - that's the film" Is there more they could add? Sure - are there bits that they'd change - quite probably. However I think then its time to start something new and not pick over the bones of the old constantly. Because in doing so its very easy to take one thing and make it into something that it never was before (esp if you put a few decades between the adjustments in).


    Could I welcome a new original Trillogy of starwars - maybe I could, but certainly not if they were in the vain of the current 3 new films; In fact I'd consider it a step back (special FX aside) story wise. Sure things would link together better (they could at least address the problem of the earlier empire having a massively more advanced technology level), but eh I'd say let it stand and move on.
    Get something fresh with a long term view in the works.
     
  10. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well he's a businessman.... I'm not denying he's milking it out too. And he loves technology for sure so count in Star Wars, all films being released in 3D. While I don't like 3D, I am looking forward to this. Other than that we still have the live-action series waiting for us, though I believe that is been put on hold right now. Basically they want the series to have the CGI quality of the films and considering budget that's not easy to accomplish. Then there's is the comedy series made together with Seth Green. And Clone Wars will continue for sure. I don't know how long but I've seen previews of the fourth season and I like it.
     
  11. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I've yet to see a single film where 3D actually made a difference outside of the scrolling credits ;)
    Seriously though one or two scenes made for 3D can look nice but in general its not ready (plus those glasses get annoying to wear the whole time).
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I agree with everything you said.He should have known when to stop.When to quit.Star Wars isn't only the 3 first movies.It's an entire mythology.There are hundreds of stories from the comic books or games than he could take and make good movies or at least animated ones and not just stick to Anakin and Padme and Anakin and Padme and Anakin and Padme and oh wait...there's C3PO and R2D2 the only two droids in the entire galaxy.
     
  13. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    I think I would prefer it if the originals were left untouched and he went on to look at alternate stories revolving around characters from the trilogy.
    But I believe even that would come out shite!!
    Everyone making movie's these days seems to think the more loud explosions, Bright flashes, and CGI used at the expense of decent dialogue and characterisation the better.
    And no matter what you say CGI looks fake and tacky a lot of the time.
    And even Lucasfilm falls under this generalisation.
     
  14. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I feel much the same way! Which is bad because good CGI can be fantastic when used correctly. Heck as much as I hate hate hate the story (what story) the CGI displayed in something like the Transformers films or that film with the blue aliens who's name always slips my mind - CGI in those blended well with the real life filming elements - it just seems that the CGI showoff was all the films were about.

    Heck I saw the Eragon film and then read the book and I'd say the 13 year old was the far better writer than the script writer and director of the film.
     
  15. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    Avatar??
    I agree...I thought Transformers was a good example of CGI and even the original story idea was clever, but the writing etc.....disgraceful.
    Unfortunately a lot of people these days want that style of movie, Hell it just matches what live is these days!! People chop and change all the times from trend to trend. No one seems to be able to focus for a period of time on one thing, and the current crop of movies reflect this!!
    Sorry about heading slightly off topic!!
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Yes Avatar - great visuals - poor character presentation and story building. It mostly only works because of pulling on very common current concepts and themes.

    I think the current crop of movies represents the fact that the average movie attendee is a young teen to young adult age group more interested in action than anything else. The problem however is that as marketing reads this and then pushes more toward it it caters toward that specific market - so they put out more films aimed at that market and the other markets quickly dwindle in their appearance - and thus more marketing reasearch shows more and more demand -- etc,... With little pause for considering other markets.

    Heck the guy that did the Dungeons and Dragons film is oft slated as a scam artist of the film world (poor films based of cheaply bought trademarked ideas where funding for the films was rapidly pushed into his own companies/friends companies more to ferret it away than to actually pay for services). Thing is I heard the budgets for these big hollywood films and I can't help but feel that they are all doing the same.
     
  17. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    The fact that a lot of remakes seem to be getting done these days worries me!!
    Does no one have an original idea or concept in their head??

    The only time I can think of a remake working decently is on television with the re-imagining of BSG.
    However, that was like a complete new series on an old idea/concept.
    Maybe this is the route people should be looking at rather than redoing classics.
    Take something that was average, and now looks dated and rework it totally.

    However by saying that...I give credence to what Lucas is doing to a degree.

    Cant he just do something new??
     
  18. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Personally I didn't like the new BSG because it wasn't BSG. It was a very big re-write and, personally, I think it would have been better to have cut all ties with the original and been its own thing; not half mated to something older that they didn't really want to use much of save for the idea of space refugees escaping certain death.
     
  19. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I've seen the trailer of red tails, the last he wrote and original, to a certain point, cause no story is truly original and of course this is based on an historical event. But it's no remake, reboot, sequel, prequel... And he said he would do more moderate films like this instead of aiming to something as big as star wars. I think it's because he knows all too well that he can't ever accomplish that. It took James Cameron a dozen years to do another film that would beat Titanic. But I think Lucas doesn't want to beat Star Wars, something he spend dozens of years of his life on. Star Wars has a richness that nothing else has accomplished with the movies and other medias around it, aka the expanded universe which of course if done by other writers who just helped to make star wars richer and build it up to what it now is. And it will only become bigger, there's almost no end to it.
     
  20. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    This is a list of deleted scene, extended scenes... Some are just a few seconds long, but it won't be included in the film, probably a separate option on the bonus disc:

    Prequel Trilogy:

    •00:00:25:05 (TRASH TALKING DROID)
    •00:00:18:10 (THE BATTLE IS OVER)
    •00:00:15:23 (ANAKIN’S RETURN)
    •00:00:17:15 (BATTLE ON THE BOARDING RAMP)
    •00:01:21:19 (EXTENDED POD RACE WAGER)
    •00:00:17:02 (BAIL ORGANA OF ALDERAAN)
    •00:00:57:15 (EXTENDED SPEEDER CHASE)
    •00:00:53:09 (THE LOST TWENTY)
    •00:00:55:00 (ANAKIN’S NIGHTMARE)
    •00:00:41:24 (ANAKIN AND RUWEE)
    •00:03:42:17 (RAID ON THE DROID CONTROL SHIP AND EXTENDED ARENA FIGHT)
    •00:01:25:21 (ELEVATOR ANTICS)
    •00:02:22:23 (ESCAPE THROUGH THE HANGER
    •00:01:49:12 (CHANGES TO CONSTITUTION)
    •00:08:03:10 (UTAPAU CHASE ANIMATICS)
    •00:03:19:04 (MUSTAFAR DUEL ANIMATICS)
    •00:03:31:08 (MUSTAFAR DUEL / LAVA RIVER ANIMATICS)
    •00:06:20:14 (KAHYYYK AND ORDER 66 ANIMATIC
    •00:00:36:00 (JEDI IMPOSTERS AT THE TEMPLE
    •00:05:10:17 (SENATE DUEL ANIMATIC)
    •00:00:48:10 (YODA COMMUNES WITH QUI-GON
    •00:00:26:08 (ANAKIN KILLS SHAAK TI)

    Original Trilogy:

    •00:04:58:24 (TOSCHE STATION)
    •00:00:31:13 (THE SEARCH FOR R2-D2)
    •00:00:42:12 (STORMTROOPER SEARCH)
    •00:00:24:17 (DARTH VADER WIDENS THE SEARCH)
    •00:00:24:20 (ALTERNATE BIGGS AND LUKE REUNION)
    •00:01:29:05 (HAN AND LEIA: EXTENDED ECHO BASE ARGUMENT)
    •00:01:59:17 (LUKE & LEIA: MEDICAL CENTRE)
    •00:02:27:03 (DELETED WAMPA SCENES)
    •00:00:20:08 (THE FATE OF GENERAL VEERS)
    •00:01:03:16 (LUKE’S RECOVERY)
    •00:01:08:04 (YODA’S TEST)
    •00:00:53:15 (HIDING IN THE ASTEROID)
    •00:00:51:12 (LEIA TENDS TO LUKE)
    •00:02:33:19 (VADER’S ARRIVAL AND REACHING OUT TO LUKE)
    •00:01:59:19 (TATOOINE SANDSTORM)
    •00:02:07:02 (REBEL RAID ON BUNKER)
    •00:00:22:00 (JERJERROD’S CONFLICT)
    •00:06:50:07 (CANTINA ROUGH CUT)
    •00:00:20:10 (AUNT BERU’S BLUE MILK)
    •00:00:13:11 (OLD WOMAN ON TATOOINE)
    •00:01:45:05 (ALTERNATE HAN AND LEIA KISS)
    •00:00:45:02 (LOBOT’S CAPTURE)
    •00:09:06:20 (BATTLE OF ENDOR: THE LOST REBELS)

    If you can't wait here's the alternative argument with Leia and Han in ESB: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/09/06/star-wars-empire-strikes-back-deleted-scene/#more-46777