Star Wars - Jedi Death Inconsistencies

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by jeremiah.l.burns, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Star Wars - Jedi death inconsistencies.

    Here's a question that's been bugging me for some time now.

    What's the deal with a Jedi death and the resulting action with the body?

    Yoda dies, and disappears.
    Obi-Wan dies, and disappears.
    Qui-Gon dies and remains...later burned.
    Anakin (Vader) dies and remains...later burned.

    Yoda, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were all "Masters", and had different resulting deaths.

    The only conclusion I can make is whether or not it was a voluntary death or not. Qui-Gon and Anakin didn't intend to die, whereas Obi-Wan and Yoda did.
     
  2. Arijah

    Arijah The Firstborn

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    Re: Star Wars - Jedi death inconsistencies.

    I think Yoda and Obi-Wan were different in that they had a more intense relationship with the Force than Qui-Gon or Anakin for that matter...Qui-Gon before he died, still had much of the Force to come to terms with within himself, and this is why he didn't reach "enlightenment" to where he could transcend like Obi-Wan or Yoda did. So basically I think your conclusion is definitely pointed in the right direction in that Obi-Wan and Yoda were able to fulfill their destiny and meet with their own fate since this meant they had basically completed that which the Force had meant for them.

    Remember before Obi-Wan disappeared, he said to Vader, "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine." or something like that....this would suggest that Obi-Wan had reached that point in his Jedi status where his "death" would be the only advancement left.

    These are just my thoughts...
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2004
  3. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Star Wars

    I moved this thread out of General Debates. It belongs here in the Star Wars section.
     
  4. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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  5. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Re: Star Wars - Jedi death inconsistencies.

    You make excellent points! Yes, I had thought of that quote of Obi-Wan's, and considered it. Though, I hadn't quite gotten my thoghts to collecto cohesively on the subject.

    Your thoughts about death being the only advancement left...very very interesting. I find myself thinking that it makes good sense when thought of in that manner.
     
  6. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    Re: Star Wars - Jedi death inconsistencies.

    To make things more confusing...at the end of RotJ you have Luke looking at not only yoda, and obi-wan who clearly dissolved into the force but also anakin...Perhaps anakin did go into the force and only his suit was burned...And what about qui-gon...we saw him die, and burned...not dissolve into the force yet we hear him speaking in AotC... This is most puzzling... BTW I heard somewhere that this issue will cleared up by Lucas in Episode III...
     
  7. Arijah

    Arijah The Firstborn

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    Re: Star Wars - Jedi death inconsistencies.

    I thought about that too, but in the same sense, remember that when Luke removed Vader's helmet to reveal Anakin, we actually see Anakin breathe his last...Qui-Gon, however, we actually get to see his body on the cremation stack at the end of Episode 1. I forget how Yoda passed, but didn't he mention that he was dying right about the time he told Luke he had a sister?...and then at the end we see his transcended form?

    I agree that Anakin "went into the Force" because the whole point in his demise was that he was able to tap into his "goodness" and overcome his own hate and kill the Emperor, thus I think setting him free from the Darkside of the Force.

    Now I have the urge to re-watch the original Trilogy...
     
  8. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    While I'm not convined that Anakin "Dissolved" into the Force, or whatever, it's an intrigueing theory. Do you think that the "holographic" "spiritual" forms of the dead Jedi that we see are purely made of medichlorians? (chk. spelling) Also, I wonder if we'll SEE Qui-Gon in holographic form at all in Ep.III??

    Also, refresh my memory...when did we hear Qui-Gon in Ep.II? I don't remember exactly, but it seems like it was just a memory of something he said rather than him talking directly...but I'd have to watch it again to be sure.
     
  9. Winterine

    Winterine Ranger-Bard

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    I also don't remember Qui-Gon in ep 2. Yoda died in his bed in ep 6, with Luke by his side.

    My thoughts were also along the lines of Yoda and Obi were more connected with the (light side) Force than Qui-Gon and Anakin, and sorta became part of it willingly...?

    I think I'll wait until I see ep 3 before I want to think too much about it. We'll see how Mace Windu (the bastard! Grrrr! No offense to MW lovers intended!) dies...
     
  10. Pallaeon

    Pallaeon New Member

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    I agree that it could be related to how they accepted their impending death. If the jedi is ready to die and on the light side, then the force accepts them completely. Whereas seeing them after they passed could be the medichlorians manifesting themselves to be the "voice of the force" using someone they know so to speak, thus helping that person understand something that is happening currently or in the near future.
     
  11. Arijah

    Arijah The Firstborn

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    When Yoda died in RotJ, didn't he too dissolve when he breathed his last?

    We heard Qui-Gon in Episode 2 when Anakin began to slaughter the Tuskan raiders, and Yoda sensed it in the Force...I'm not sure if it was a memory cuz I can't remember where in Episode 1 where Qui-Gon yelled for him...

    Midichlorians...I think they are given more credit than they deserve. It would seem that Midichlorians are like any other symbiote in that they act as genes and depending on amount, can be proactive or passive in nature and not necessarily a separate entity in describing the Force. I think they are merely indicators of whether or not or how much someone would be prone to the Force, much like how genetics would explain how some would be more prone to being overweight, or short, or have green eyes. Okay, so maybe they are more complicated than that, but I do not think they have any "spiritual" significance in the afterlife.
     
  12. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Interesting take. If I'm remembering, it was a quick simple line like "Anakin!" It could have been taken from Ep. I when he shouted "Anakin! Get down!", as Darth Maul swooped over in his speeder. But I'd need to watch both again.
     
  13. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    Ya know I used to like star wars. till I saw and read lotr.

    But I think it has not only to with death being intentional or not, but the fact that they gave up their life. Thereby preserving the honor of their bodys. If someone already said this sorry I didn't read everything....
     
  14. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    I just watched Episode II a couple of days ago... Right as anakin starts to kill the tuskens you hear Qui-gon say "Anakin, No!" ...BTW yoda was meditating at this point and hears Qui-gon's words. What if this is how Yoda knows you can dissolve into the force... Just a thought...
     
  15. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    That sounds right, as far as the qote from Qui-Gon goes. "Anakin, no!" sounds right. But how wierd that they'd have Liam come in for a single line.
     
  16. Kal-EL

    Kal-EL New Supes costume sucks

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    In the novel series Jedi Acedemy Trilogy, book 2 "Dark Apprentice", it actually says that only Anakin's suit was burned, that his body dissolved like the other Jedi in Episodes 4 & 5.

    That still doesn't explain Qui-gon though.
     
  17. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    That's interesting. I wonder why they wouldn't show him dissolve in the movie. Star Wars got it's fan base from movies, so you'd think they want to include pertanent info. like that in the movie.

    Thanks for the info!

    Yes, it still doesn't explain Qui-Gon. Hmmm...perhaps something to do with the violence of his death.
     
  18. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    In real life quigon probably would not have died from that injury, it wasn't in a serious place, people survive gunshot wounds in the amdomen, plus the wound was coturized(burned and sealed, I think I spelled it wrong) so he wouldn't bleed to dath.
     
  19. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    True, True...and remember he didn't die right away in the movie...He had time to talk to Obi-wan, convincing him to train Anakin...I might have mentioned this before but I could have sworn that in one of the official movie discussions with the producer at starwars.com it was said that this issue would be cleared up in the next movie... BTW if the Jedi learn how to dissolve into the force, will Windu dissolve when he dies in Episode III???
     
  20. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Man. can't wait now.