Star Wars Episode 7 movie talk

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Mububban, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. FaerieKim

    FaerieKim New Member

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    No. Han said "over my dead body" and greedo said "that's the idea. I've been looking forward to this for a long time" and was pointing his gun at him. The implication was very clear that greedo was threatening to shoot him. Han shooting first was not cold-blooded killer it was thinking on his feet and saving his own skin. It showed he was smart.

    Greedo shooting first and missing doesn't make sense. How could you miss when you're at such close range and pointing the gun straight at him?
    So it just seemed stupid.

    No the original song has a groove to it, it's got that gangstery jazz feel to it, its understated nature just adds atmosphere to the scene, rather than getting in the way of the action. Jedi Rocks is cheesy and irritating and goes on way too long.

    As for the puppets/guys in suits of the original. I love Max Rebo (the blue guy on the keys) and the mole rat looking guy on the clarinet or whatever is also pretty cool. Sy Snootles might be the worst of the three but still better than anything in the ridiculous, cartoony Jedi Rocks.

    I suppose taste is very subjective though:)
     
  2. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well I said a lot of people didn't like ROTJ for that reason, not everybody:) Cause I feel the same as you about the film. However with the prequels. Yes Anakin is being duped, but that's only because his journey is more emotional because there had to be a larger explanation why Anakin fell to the Dark Side, while Luke didn't. If he went through almost the same journey Luke did, it would have made him look weak. Instead he was heavily manipulated by Palpatine and took advantage of his trust in him. Older and wiser than his father was at that the time he confronted Palpatine, Luke could avoid being tempted, also because he was able to keep his emotions in check. However Anakin was becoming possessive over Padmé, afraid to lose her, which made it easier for Palpatine to play on that weakness. Luke was a lot less under Palpatine's influence than his father, who has been under his influence over for like 13 years. That's what some fans tend to forget. It could only be brought to their attention when Anakin is not pleased he has to spy on a mentor, a friend who has been like a father to him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  3. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    For me the original song was just background music. It served its purpose, but that's all. Again the Sy Snootles puppet was terrible. I don't find Jedi Rock a terrible song, but it doesn't really fit in Jabba's palace. It felt a bit out of place. I had no problems with the guys in suits like Max Rebo. It's mostly just Sy Snootles. I id also like how Boba Fett was flirting with the dancers, which was also added.

    About who shot first, I think it's an unnecessary change, but there were so many fans who said that it changed Han's character, cause he wasn't a cold-blooded killer anymore. With changing the scene Lucas wanted to make it clear that he wasn't. Really, I blame it more on the fans rather than on Lucas. It's the same with Anakin screaming 'No!' in the end of ROTJ. Completely unnecessary, but often the audience needs to be spoonfed it seems. Same counts for the prequels. There's so many fans that think Padmé is a bad mother because she doesn't think about her children as she doesn't have any will left to live at least for their sake. That's not what it was about. It's symbolic and the medical droid didn't understand why she was dying. It's a parallel scene of Vader's birth to the children's birth. Anakin's death and Padmé's death.
     
  4. Kele

    Kele New Member

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    I am not thinking about Lucas changing McQuarrie's designs--I was pointing out the importance of McQuarrie to the success of Star Wars. Lucas was not a painter--McQuarrie was.

    I dont think Han Solo is bad ass. I find him a weak character (much like Indiana Jones never really moved the plot along in Raiders). Him shooting Greedo first doesnt mean much to me. The problem I had with the shot was that it was inelegantly done-like other changes in the SE.

    As I said Lucas is more of an experimental filmmaker and didnt really understand or care that the audience responded to the films as stories. He didnt understand or care about that emotional connection. He had said that a successful film for him was one that also worked as a silent movie-he didnt care about the dialogue.
    The ending of ROTJ works because there is a dramatic connection--and it is a rare case in the series where it doesn't feel plot driven.

    The interesting thing about Williams' music is that prior to Jaws he was not doing much in the way of leitmotif that stood out. Not for Earthquake.

    But his strongest genre scores (I dont care what he does for slice of life films) Jaws-Star Wars, Superman, Dracula, etc have that memorable melody quality throughout which is why they have been revisited for decades.
    While there are several tracks in ESB that stand out, in the prequels there are only really two that do--the Duel of the Fates and the main theme from AOTC.
     
  5. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I never said he was a painter. I said he was an artist. I only made the comparison, because like with art Da Vinci made it would be wrong to say he should do otherwise, just like with Lucas. I repeat "Art is not a democracy."

    I find Lucas a good storyteller and he understands mythology well, Joseph Campbell being one of his mentors he knows it very well. And the audience really connects well with mythology. Few storytellers do know true mythology, who are also filmmakers, like Guillermo Del Toro and James Cameron. The reason why Lucas said his films could be silent films is because he finds music vital to his films. He often said they could tell the story. When it comes to priorities he says he finds music and visuals more important rather than dialogue and he did admit he was not good at writing dialogue. That's why the best dialogue is still in Empire Strikes Back as the screenplay was written by Lawrence Kasdan, same writer who is writing the screenplay for The Force Awakens. Sadly he's not writing the scripts for its sequels, and they'll also have different directors. I believe Lucas chose out the directors, except for Episode IX he wanted Brad Bird, instead of the director of Jurassic World.

    I have to disagree with memorable themes in the prequels. You have Duel of the Fates, Anakin's theme (based on the Imperial March), Across the Stars, Order 66, Battle of the Heroes ao.

    Maybe you're just more familiar with the themes of the OT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  6. Kele

    Kele New Member

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    Lucas compared filmmaking to painting.
    He described digital technology as allowing him to be like a painter.
    In the 1980 Making of ESB book Lucas remarked how the facial expression of characters communicated the story and that dialogue wasnt needed. I am sure he understands the importance of music.
    The only music in the prequels that stood out to me were the themes I mentioned. It is a similar situation with the last Indiana Jones movie. One or two themes that stand out--the rest do not. The durability of the original trilogy music is that it continues to be used. What music was used in the new trailers?
    Perhaps he doesnt feel inspired by the film he has to score to, but he was working overtime in the 1970s early 80s to have distinct tunes for each scene--one has to run low on ideas sometime.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  7. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Lucas described himself as a painter to explain the changes he made. He said he saw the films as an incomplete painting or as if a fog was covering it and as time moved on the fog would clear allowing him to see the painting clearer.

    In the first teaser it was mostly new music, though it ends in the Star Wars fanfare.
    The second teaser, it's mostly the Force theme, though you can hear new music mixed in later. Then it starts to flourish.
    In the last main trailer: Han and Leia's theme, the Force theme, a hint of Luke's theme which relates to the Star Wars main theme.

    A lot more themes stand out to me, like the ones I mentioned, from the prequels. To each their own I guess.
     
  8. Kele

    Kele New Member

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    Yep-they went with the OT music. Not surprised at all.
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    These are all themes, except for Han and Leia's theme that is present in the prequel trilogy as well. Obviously they went back to OT related themes, since this takes place closer to the OT and considering the subjects and mostly what the film is about it's no surprise at all they stuck to OT created themes. Why would they use PT music anyway since it barely relates to the film? Sorry that I come as defensive, but you seem to imply that they're using themes first created for the OT, because they're better.
     
  10. Kele

    Kele New Member

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    Well I have nothing more to say on it at this time. :)
     
  11. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well good, cause you couldn't be more wrong if you did try. Obviously there were still some OT themes in the PT for example, because they didn't only relate to the OT, but to the entire saga, which is why the Force theme will likely be the most relevant theme of all. The Rebel fanfare and opening crawl are also themes played throughout all 6 films, but story-wise it's not as relevant as the Force theme. Also the Force theme, often heard in the trailers was more frequently heard in the Prequel Trilogy as it was improved and it was more relevant in its story. The Imperial march is played once and a few times in Revenge of the Sith and it will likely be the same in the new trilogy as no doubt the First Order will have its own theme, but likely will still have echoes of the Imperial March as the First Order was born from the Empire.
     
  12. Kele

    Kele New Member

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    Arguing for arguing sake doesnt appeal to me. So I will leave it at this--the music they chose for the trailers comes from the OT. I would bet that the OT soundtracks sell better than the PT but too lazy to attempt a search. I just dont care that much on the subject. Good luck defending the PT. If you have a sense of humor watch the Red Letter Media reviews of them. Cheers.
     
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  13. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    You gotta admit... This is AWESOME!

    Anyway I said my piece... Enjoy the film.
     
  14. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Japanese trailer with lots of new footage. I am quite confidently excited at this point:

     
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  15. Midnattblod

    Midnattblod Ranger of Shadow

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    not gonna lie, the more I see, the more excited I get, though not anywhere near some really die hard fans of the series
     
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    So who's got tickets already? I'm frantically trying to arrange babysitting so my wife and I can go see it asap, before the internet spoils it for me!
     
  17. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    me :)gonna see at 18dec 14:30
     
  18. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Going to see it tomorrow, the 17th in IMAX. I've heard fans thrilled, disappointed, calling it racist, anti-feminist. They say the prequels were at least original, calling this one a rehash. There's just no pleasing them, whether you try something completley new like with the prequels or tread more on familiar ground with this one. I say this to go and watch this movie to see what they deliver, not with what you expect.
     
  19. Oddrun

    Oddrun I speak languages.

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    I liked it! But when Kylo Ren took off his mask I thought: "Wait, what is Snape doing there?" :D
     
  20. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    @ORR Spoilers?
    Well I liked it too; some minor stuff annoyed me but definitely a good star wars
     
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