SPOILER deathly hallows

Discussion in 'Books' started by clouded_perception, Jul 21, 2007.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    wehehehe - I'm having good fun now, on what we've been writing and predicting on book 7. I must say we've made quite some good work, especially on the R.A.B. thread. Though I suppose everyone 's been wrong at some point, the consensus was generally right, which is a first for the HP series, far as I can remember :)
     
  2. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Of course other wands don't work as well as the subject's own; we always knew that. But Harry's been disarmed before and his wand was still 'loyal' to him afterwards; nobody seemed to have any of these problems until book 7.
     
  3. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    it never said that the wand would be disloyal to the person it was disarmed from (at least I dont remember reading that). just more loyal or respectful to the person who did the disarming.
    The Elder wand is the one that was more picky about who could use its full power.
     
  4. Tinuviel

    Tinuviel New Member

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    Loved how it started out, but then, man, that woman needs an editor in a serious way. I loved the book, but the whole Ron, Hermione, Harry(then just H&H)camping bit got really drawn out and boring. I get that she was trying to mirror the feelings of boredom that they must be feeling when they just ended up sitting around rehashing the same ideas of what will happen next instead of jumping in to some fierce Voldemort destroying action that they had anticipated, but I think it went a bit too far in to the 'boring' camp. Having said that, I think she did a wonderful job of reflecting upon the 'hurry up and wait' and 'rehash the same ideas a thousand different ways while we wait for some action' feelings that both the characters and readers were feeling even if I did get a bit bogged down with it.

    I really loved to hate how Ron's character developed while wearing the Horcrux. Very nice. I was quite fed up with his nasty attitude and was glad to see him crack and leave. I love Ron, and I think that this gave a depth to his character that ws needed. Before he had mostly just been Harry's sidekick and went with the flow of things, sometimes having moments where he just couldn't grasp the magnitude of what Harry must be feeling in regards to the job at hand(i.e. during the Triwizard tourney when he was all in a huff thinking Harry had put in his own name to show off his talents). I liked that Ron got first-hand experience at having Voldemort's power/essence/threat weighing heavily on him and altering how he feels. thinks, and acts. Very well done in my opinion. I also thought it telling of his character that he sucked it up and came back. He was persistant in his efforts to rejoin his came through.

    I absolutely loved how Neville came in to his own. I broke down and cried when it became apparent that through all of the punishment, uncertainty, threats, and fear that Dumbledore's Army was alive and growing! It was so emotional for me to read that scene where they had such blind faith in Harry and the cause that he, unbeknownst to Harry, called up all of the DA and Order members. There they all were, appearing as soon as they were called, knowing that this could be the last thing they ever did, most of them just of age, willing to sacrifice everything at Harry's word for the greater good. Loved it! It truly felt as close to Dumbledore's Army as I could hope.

    I was really gald to see Kreacher's softer side. I was so sad to see Dobby die. It was touching. I was largely unaffected by Hedwig's death though. Considering the dire situation they found themselves in, I felt relieved that Mad-Eye and Hedwig where the worst of it. I wasn't surprised when Fred died. I had a feeling that one of the twins would die. It just seems as if it would be more poignant killing off a twin and all.

    I did find Lupin and Tonks deaths to be a bit anti-climatic. I think that for such pointed characters, they deserved better deaths. A little explantation if you please, ya know. I was a bit miffed when Tonks left Teddy to join Lupin. To me, it did not seem as if she were there for the fight per se, but more for Lupin, in effect choosing him over Teddy. I did not like the feel of that. Lupin would have been livid had he felt as if she were choosing to come to his side out of fear for him rather than as an equal preapred to fight the battle that had been so long coming. I could have completely backed her choice to fight if I felt that she was fighting for the cause rather than for Lupin. I do think that it illustrated the love that she felt for him, but I also think that it dimishes her character as a whole. Before that, I had always thought of her as a strong bright auror who was willing to risk it all to defeat Voldemort if it came to that. I respect that. But, in the end she seemed like a young fearful woman who was more worried about her husband and let that fear overtake her. Perhaps that was the point, that beneath all of the bravado, they were all afraid of the same things that you and I would have been afraid of. I try not to be too hard on Tonks, because, I realize that her dying was neccessary. I think it was important to make the connection that in this war, along with the last, parents made the ultimate sacrifice in hopes that their children would not have to do so. Tonks dying completed that circle. Lily died to protect Harry, however in doing so she also opened the path for Voldemort to mark him as his equal, therefore putting his life at risk again. Tonks died in effort to eliminate that risk.

    I was also glad to see a few chinks in Dumbeldore's armor. It was about time that they were revealed. It endeared him even more to me.

    I knew it! I knew Snape was good. I knew he was in love with Lily. I was sobbing as Harry was observing his memories in the Penseive. It was more heartwrenchingly complex than I had imagined. He had sacrificed everything to potect Lily, then Harry. He had endangered his own life repeatedly to ensure that Harry remained safe. I think that he loved Harry, despite hating his father. When he was looking in to Harry's eyes, Lily's eyes, while he was dying....*wipes eyes*.... that was just too much. I thought it wonderful that his some was given the name Severus and felt all tingly when Harry said that he was the bravest man that Harry had ever known. I agree.

    The part where Harry tucked his wand and cloak inside his robes, so that he would not be tempted to use them, then walked toward his certain death was wonderful. I loved it. It was in true Harry fashion. I am not sure yet what I think about him not staying dead, but I will admit that I was mad when he died. And mad when he came back. I think that his death was fitting, yet so is his defying it. I am okay with how it ended though.
     
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  5. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I couldn't agree more, except about Tonks, I think you're being a bit hard on her. She's one of the strongest and most talented Aurors, a member of the Order and this was going to be the final showdown with Voldemort. Of course she's going to want to protect the baby but her presence or absence could turn the battle, and she wouldn't want to see her kid grow up in a world where they lost. So she gave him to the non-combatant she trusted most and set off.
     
  6. Tinuviel

    Tinuviel New Member

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    See, if it had been prtrayed more like that, I would totally back her up. But, as it was(or at least how I remember it after my furiously fast first read), she was not hyped up and bent on Voldemort's destruction. She was worried about Lupin and chasing him down. I think that it was ill-written by Rowling to be perfectly honest. I think that Tonks true character is what you described, but I think that Rowling doted on her love for Lupin a little too much and therefore forced the focus to be on Lupin, not Voldemort, causing Tonks perceived motives to shift as well.

    As I said, I do try to cut Tonks some slack. I love Tonks. I think her dying was essential to the 'one step further' theory. She, knowing Lily's fate and the fate that was therefore bestowed upon Harry, took couragous steps to ensure that Teddy never be in that position. She was protecting Teddy as Lily had protected Harry with the full knowledge of what could happen. What Lily did was instinctual and courageous. What Tonks did was diabolical, couragous, and respectable. No one would have thought less had she not joined the fight so recently after having given birth and stayed home with Teddy, yet she chose to do so. My point is that poor writing(yeah, I said it) altered the focus of her motives. I do think that she was concerned about Lupin, but I do not think that was her main reason for going. I think she went to do what Lily could not. To try to defeat Voldemort to ensure her child's safety evermore, knowing that death was probable. My hat is off to Tonks. Not so much to Rowling in her portrayal of Tonks doing so.


    *Disclaimer: Yes, I realize that I am being quite confident in my portrayal of how Tonks really felt and her true motives for joining the fight, but given the history of her character and her demeanor in every encounter we as readers have observed her in, I do not feel as if her motives could have been any less meek.
     
  7. Linkk06

    Linkk06 New Member

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    book 7..what to say

    I hate how the book was so predictable. It seems almost like she made Harry live in order to please her readers, but to me that ending just doesn't feel right. Even with Voldemort gone and defeated, Harry will always be set apart from everyone else. His life has always been filled with purpose, but with Voldemort dead what's left for him? There's no one left that he can identify with, no one that fully understands what he's been through. Before he's always had his goal in front of him, something to give him strength to get through his difference from the rest of the world, but without this to keep him going he is truly alone. I think it would've been more appropriate for him to die and be reunited with those he loved (his parents, sirius, dumbledore) and to truly be happy, once and for all. That's just me.

    I didn't like the epilogue, at all. JKR spends the whole book making them out to be heroes, only to finish it off by turning them into ordinary people. I think an epilogue is good, but I think she should've left more to our imagination. Drop the kids, and their names, and focus not on the future 19 years from now, but something a little closer to the end the action. I felt like she turned our strong heroes into nothing more than ordinary people, and for someone reason this bothers me, given the fact that they're not.

    The sitting around in a tent was all okay for reading the book a first time because it still had the element of surprise, but it doesn't make for a good second read. Too much time was filled with Harry, Ron and Hermione sitting around doing nothing, and to make it worse, for half of that time Ron wasn't even there. That all could've easily been cut in half. With a mind like JKRowling I would expect something a little more exciting.

    I really like how in this book Neville stepped up and grew into such a strong character. His gran was finally proud of him, and he was finally proud of himself. I also liked the change in Kreacher, it showed how much the way you treat someone affects them. I didn't like the lack of characters, with this book being so isolated to Harry, Ron, and Hermione. I found myself wondering what was going on with the Order and at Hogwarts while they were all out camping.

    While I agree that the deaths of Lupin and Tonks were necassary, I also agree that there should've been more to it. Couldn't we have at least had a description of what happened? I felt like it undermined their deaths by not giving us the details of how and why they died. Because of the lack of detail and attention given to their deaths, I found it hard to get upset over them.

    What this book really needed was a twist. It was too straightforward, too predictable. There was no "WHOA" or shock, no turning point where I felt like everything that I believed had just completely fallen apart. I think my biggest problem with this book is the lack of mystery and suspense, the lack of wondering "what's going to happen next". There was no shock to anything that happened. So it was a good book, but in my opinion not the best.

    One last thing. Harry drove me INSANE. He never listens. Never. Ron and Hermione always tell him to do things the smart way, and he never takes their advice. Then he always ends apologizing and feeling bad for being such an idiot. It drove me CRAZY. I don't know why Ron and Hermione put up with him. There is nothing special about Harry. Without Ron and Hermione Harry would be nowhere. Everyone's so in love with Harry, they neglect all of the other characters who are stronger, smarter, braver, etc. I HATE HIM!!
     
  8. Warlock Lord

    Warlock Lord I am a Fashion Statement

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    first off... i am completely stunned that rowling managed not only to finish the story so well... but she managed rap up the story with her best book so far...

    NEVER have i cried whilst reading a book... this is the honest to god truth... the deathly hallows was one of the best books i think i will ever read!!!

    it was dark, fast paced and harry didnt die!!! (luckily... or rowling would have received a full blown smack in the face by her own book!)


    chapter 34, 'the forest again' was so emotionally graphic that i just collapsed in tears!

    there was a complete twist that i NEVER saw coming, mostly based around wandlore!


    overall... 10/10 (a MUST read!).......... no... (a... it should be illegal NOT to read it!)

    anyway... yeah!
     
  9. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I agree. There was no seeing how it happened, who did it. They were just there, dead, like it did not matter. That's what really mad me upset, like they were just there as an afterthought, dead but not important enough to tell us the whole story, I'll just toss them in too. You know? Fred's death affected me much more, because it so well written, and I liked him much less than Tonks and Lupin. :(

    Though, I could understand why Tonks went to go fight. It was who she was, she would have never been able to live with herself if they had lost, and she had survived. You never know when that one person will make a difference.

    Like Neville! I was proud of him and Luna when the little group heard what they were doing at school, and I wanted to cheer when he stepped out of the group to stand up to Voldemort, pulled the sword out and killed Nagini!!! I knew after book 5 that he was going to come into his own, but it totally surpassed what I expected. One of the best parts of the book!
     
  10. Kakashi

    Kakashi Call me Deacon Blues

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    it was awesome, but sadly, the best part was when hedwig died :D
     
  11. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I'm bad doing a double post, but I'm lazy and didn't want to edit, I hate editing quotes. :halo:

    I liked it. All his life, he had this fame from something truly awful happening to him. He never knew what he did, or wanted to be famous, all it did was seperate him from society somewhat, put him in the spotlight and make him an oddity. It was like this dark cloud hanging over his head, particulary in the last couple books. All he wanted was to have a family, and be a normal person. And that's what happened. He could not get his parents back, but he had a happy life, surrounded by people he loves. He's no longer 'the chosen one', he can finally do what he wants.
     
  12. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Like Nyn said, Harry did want to be a hero, he wanted a simple life with family, its what he always wanted, Remember the mirror of erised? It showed him surrounded by family and loved ones, not by admirers. His was famous all his life for one thing or the other, he wants a family life.

    Again I state; I love this book. Best of them all, and thats saying something.
     
  13. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Did we read the same book? Ron flaked out on Harry, Hermione and Ron depended on Harry for plans, and even Hermione's plan to go somewhere ended up being a dumb idea. Harry said to go to Hogwarts for the other Horcrux but Hermione said not to, Harry said there was such things as the Deathly Hallows, Hermione denied their existence. And How is Harry not brave?

    .... Bastard.....:(
     
  14. Árëlin Milloway

    Árëlin Milloway Toast Tiger

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    Finished it this mornig, as I was the last person in the family allowed to read it (rest of them payed :p) -SO I read the whole series from the beginning during the last week, so it all ... conected up perfectly :D...

    I really like most of the book, I was almost crying so many times (and laughing out loud at others :D) ['ear! 'ear!] It was so sad with the twins ...(one min. silence __________)
    But I think the end, was... a good way to round everything up, althought I wanted Harry to die, ans Snape to live.... (I love Snape, always have, even when he was supposed to be evil, I love him)

    Honestly, I think that as she started up writing a children's book, and ended up with this... it's awsome! :D
     
  15. Lord_Croanan

    Lord_Croanan King and Conquerer

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    Spoilers...I know its in the title, but just in case

    Just finished, and I think it would physically immpossible for her to have ended it any other way. Fate would have not allowed her too.

    Anyways, I did like it a lot, glad that Harry and Ginny married, as did Ron and Hermonie, and the kids were perfect. I was sad at all the great characters who had to die, and secretly happy that the Malfoys are alive. Strange, I always disregarded the rabid fan hoards who claimed he was a horcrux, but, it worked out.

    Can't wait to read her next book, whatever that may be.
     
  16. Nox

    Nox Antediluvian

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    Whatever the next book will be we won't know she wrote it, she sed she was done and if she wrote anything else it will be some short children stories and she's going to use a different name.

    I was quite dissapointed in this book, I didn't find out what I wanted to find out, too many loose ends, many of my friends bealive and I agree that she jsut used this book to kill off everybody, the epiloge was just horrible, at first I thought there was some mistake and the end somehow got changed whit some cheap fanfiction ending...

    What ware Lily and Jameses and trios occupations?
    What happend to the rest of characters?
    Where was Fawkes?
    How did the sword get back in the hat?
    Who was the person who used magic later in life?

    I've got more...
     
  17. BlackScorpion

    BlackScorpion Eternal Idiot

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    I finally read the book! Stupid book shop had done something wrong with the reservations. Which meant that I either had to throw away my deposit or wait patiently. Not really in a mood to throw away money, I waited and got the book finally in the late afternoon of Tuesday. Anyhow, it read easily thank goodness and even though I felt reluctant to getting near the end, I liked it.

    But I must agree with the posts about the bad epilogue: the book would have been better if Rowling had just left out the 19 years after part and had just ended with the last chapter. Those last five pages were just too much, naming their kids to Dumbledore and all, I thought I was going to have a fit! It was all too soft and it just blew the whole thing. So I just quickly tried to forget about those last five pages.

    But leaving that part out, I thought it was very good. Already in the last book, when Snape killed Dumbledore, I just wouldn't believe Snape to have gone 'bad' after all. And there were certain things in this latest book which already told me that my faith was going to be rewarded (even though he did die in the end - but that I also expected since book 6). The fact that he 'punished' Ginny and Neville by sending them to help Hagrid, that was just too obvious a hint of where his true loyalties were laying.

    One thing I couldn't follow though, the whole explanation of Harry about who the true owner of the Elder Wand was. How could Draco have been the true owner if he had not killed Dumbledore? That's just a small thing that I just couldn't follow...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2007
  18. comfan

    comfan New Member

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    I agree with most of the viewpoints about the deaths of the major characters but to me Dobby's death was the most poignant becauce of the circumstances in which it happened. I think that Tonks wanted to be with Remus because she was worried that he may act rashly because of of him being a werewolf and how he is accepted.And I very much agree with the epilogue being very lame.I liked the book but I don't know if I would call it the best of the bunch.
     
  19. Lady Aria

    Lady Aria Daughter of the Stars

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    I can't say anything bad about the book. It was wonderful, I laughed, I was near sobs by the end of the book and I just absolutely loved it. My only concern was if Harry would die and when he came back all was right in the world. I loved Bellatrixs Vs. Molly and the ending. I wish she had done more with the epilogue. Like what Harry and the Gang did for a living, the new minister, new head master, ect. all in all 10/10, five stars, hands down best book ever. :)
     
  20. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    at www.the-leaky-cauldron.org there was an link to a recent interview with Rowling. She said she purposefully left if vague, that cramming all that information into that last bit seemed unnatural and would not flow properly.
    She also has said that eventually, after her break, she will be writing an Encyclopedia type book with more information on the series and even the epilogue.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20001720/
    that is the interiview, if you just want to know what happens after, go to page four and read until you find it.
     
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