Speculations!

Discussion in 'Games' started by Liadan, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    How about a new speculation? Who do you think will sit on the Iron Throne at the end of the series? I always thought it was Dany, but she's incapable of producing an heir which makes me a little skeptical.
     
  2. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    who knows, dany probably, but heirs aside the books will be over so no one cares.





    Also heres a lovely big of speculation i sprang on LDH during our PM debate (yes, its still going on).

    R+L=J

    Will it ever be unveiled?

    Lets think about it practically.......how and why would be ever find out. th only speculative people who know are howland reed and maybe his kids. but would they ever have reason to bring it up, its doubtful we're taking a trip to greywater watch anytimes soon, especially for those who would need to know, jon and maybe dany. the reed kids have skipped out the wall avoiding jon altogether too.

    Also for the practicallity of the story, why do we need to know? we dont, the only reason we would is to bring up that jon is a targ.....and what does that help? head of the dragon? he's sworng to the wall and its clear he means to honour his duty, any any in hopes of romance between jon and dany since targs stick to their own.....imagine if they find out....hey, im really your nephew, and your my aunt! lets get it on!.......I dont think so.

    And then third and foremost. GRRM is a cruel cruel man, who likes to dash all our hopes against the wall to see what kind of a mess it makes........he loves to get out hopes up in vain..........sure he may have planned it as a nice revelation, but now that its an uproar in the community spreading this theory that gains weight, he might decide to leave it out, what was his ace in the hole isnt as powerful as it would be, so to flip the card and punish us for our insolence sounds like his style.

    The other idea may be that he's saving it, for a prequel series after the main one, set in the war between robert and rhaegar....which would be nice but theres some problems. he's got a few books left yet, what if he gets bored or frustrated with the series and decided to end it and not continue? plus he is pretty old.......maybe he wont last long enough to spill the beans.



    not only is this interesting speculation, but its practically torture for LDH.
     
  3. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I'm still pretty pissed off with him for even bringing up the possibility. And yes, it's torture.

    I read an interesting excerpt from GoT the other day. Words in brackets are those I inserted.

    "I fear that man [Varys]." [Cat said.]

    Littlefinger smiled. "Leave Lord Varys to me, sweet lady. If you will permit me a small obscenity - and where better for it than here - I hold that man's balls in the palm of my hands." He cupped his fingers, smiling. "Or would, if he were a man, or had any balls. You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that. Were I you, I would worry more about the Lannisters and less about the eunuch."

    Sounds a bit similar to a scene in SoS, doesn't it? Maybe it has nothing to do with Joff's wedding, but I find it odd that GRRM chose that particular image to describe this.
     
  4. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Why not, wedding pie is a westerosi tradition so its not exclusive to joffs wedding, and its really the only metaphor he can use since he's focusing on the theme of varys' 'little birds'

    its far too early to be linked with joffs wedding.
     
  5. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Why not? I bet that there are other metaphors to use besides the wedding pie for little birds. I think it's more than likely that Littlefinger was involved in Joff's murder, given the poison theories.


    EDIT: You know how GRRM mentioned those "projects" weeks back? I just realized I never posted a bit of info I found on the Westeros site, also weeks ago, mentioning a worldbook on Westeros (it was mentioned that Elio and Linda, who run the site, will be helping GRRM with it.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Im not doubting littlefingers involvment in joffery's murder, i just dont think anyone was planning it THAT early in the book, before he was even king.

    And for the sake of my arguement, please, find some OTHER westerosi themed metaphors for exposition involving birds.......
     
  7. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Oh, that's how you meant it. All right, I can agree with that. My point was that it was an interesting bit of speculation, anyway.

    And as for the metaphor, it doesn't have to be necessarily Westero-based.
     
  8. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    any others then?
     
  9. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    I thought not!




    lol.


    Anyway time for some new speculation!

    heres one from my current reread.

    Who is Robb stark's heir?

    Before the red wedding there was a catelyn chapter where robb names a new heir but I cant remember if it was mentioned or hinted at enough. They did it because with them thinking bran and rickon are dead, arya too, the only one left is sansa, but as she was married to tyrion robb needed to name an heir to keep winterfell from the lannisters.

    At the end of the chapter the lords sign the decree. the question is, will this play a part later, with rob dead we would think that bran would be king next when he reveals himself, but who has the right if robb has names another person his heir?

    So, who could it be...Jon was mentioned but something tells me it might not be him, the whole thing is left too much in the dark to say. any thoughts?
     
  10. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Sorry, I think AOL shut down on me when I was viewing your post. :S "You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that. Were I you, I would worry more about the Lannisters and less about the eunuch." My point is that the pie doesn't need to be specifically mentioned - it could just be something about birds singing if the secret's spilled, etc.

    Anyway, I believe the heir was implied to be Jon Snow, but that's about all I remember.
     
  11. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Its obvious its a subtle hint to varys' 'little birds' I'm just refuting the fact that it has any link to Joff's wedding.


    And Jon snow was implied but was he chosen? Robb mentions him to Catelyn and she refuses on several grounds, and finally when its signed she mentions something along the lines that she'd caught him in a trap.

    That seems to imply that her refusal of Jon meant she had to accept whoever he chose.

    Still its only speculation.
     
  12. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    That's what I thouhgt too. And the only reason I remember that is because Cat was bitching about it. :p
     
  13. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    But this is sneaky GRRM like the wylla stuff with jon's parentage. its implied.......but is it true?
     
  14. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Oh, I accept that. I just thought that it was an interesting passage, that's all.

    I don't believe that it's specifically stated, although I could check, if you like.
     
  15. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Reread the chapter and apply the R+L=J type of scrutiny to it and youll be left wondering if he really was named....
     
  16. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Reread it, and I don't see how it could be anyone else.

    "A king must have an heir. [...] By law, Sansa is next in the line of succession, so Winterfell and the North would pass to her." His mouth tightened. "To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north."
    "No," Catelyn agreed. "You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son."
    [...]
    "Mother. You forget. My father had four sons."
    "A Snow is not a Stark."
    "Jon's more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell."
    "Jon is a brother of the Night's Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life." [...]
    "A bastard cannot inherit."
    "Not unless he's legitimized by a royal decree," said Robb. [...]
    "Precedent," she said bitterly. "Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his death bed. [...] If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again." [..]
    "Jon would never harm a son of mine."
    [...]
    "So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the north must not be permitted to pass to the Imp, but what of Arya? By law, she comes after Sansa... your own sister, trueborn..."
    "... and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father's head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice."
    "I cannot," she said. "In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this... this folly. Do not ask it."
    "I don't have to. I'm the king."
     
  17. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    And you forgot the end of the chapter where they actually name the heir, but dont give it away.
     
  18. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Well I don't remember either. Is it one of the Umbers maybe?
     
  19. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Nope, I read that part too. But judging by that scene, do you really think Robb named someone as heir? And if you do, who? Robb knows that the rest of his siblings are dead. Since he doesn't have any near male relatives (Brandon, Lyanna, and Benjen don't have children), Jon's the only logical choice. I posted a bunch of stuff on Westeros inheritance laws somewhere in the ASoIaF section, and it's pretty clear. Proper of lines of inheritance go like this:
    Male heir
    Male heir's male children
    Male heir's brothers
    Male heir's brothers'/sisters' male children
    Male heir's female children
    Male heir's sisters/brothers' female children
    Then close male relatives, maybe close female relatives with male children. Bastards can inherit if only legalized. I don't think that a random man was ever named as heir - there's always a blood link of some sort.
     
  20. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    But jon is a member of the nights watch, who cant inherit. we've already seen from stannis' offer that he wouldnt accept.

    Its just the wording of one of the parts that got me going, just at the end. When they sign the decree or whatever, Catelyn thinks something along the lines that she'd been caught in a trap by robb.

    This suggests that maybe he used jon as a suggestion to make the next name seem better.

    Which also suggests it may be someone she would have to be coerced into agreeing to.

    As for ideas I dont know.....A few guesses might be edmure of the blackfish, or one of of the northern lords, but thats not too disagreeable so the trap is unnecesary.

    Maybe it could be one of the westerlings, the kings relatives by marriage?

    who knows, it just does seem like one of GRRM's classic methods of implying one way and leaving ti to be exploited later.