Someone must stop Germany...

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Anduil, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ I suggested Russian or US as they're powerful enough to give arms (at low cost) for political reasons!

    If Greece goes it alone cash is going to be at a premium.
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I guess the Russians would be the ones providing the best solutions then HOWEVER our politicians,sold out dogs as most of them are,will stubbornly refuse to accept anything from Russia and will chew any bone thrown at them by the Germans and Americans like lapdogs.Woof woof woof!

    Believe me,if they sold us air guns for 1,000,000,000 $US and there was a bribe of let's say 5-10 millions in it for the ministers involved they would accept it and present them to us as state-of-the-art rifles developed to strike fear into the heart of our enemies.
     
  3. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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  4. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ Partially agree with the article although The Guardian is a bit 'leftie' for me.

    <rant starts>

    I don't think it's banks or pension funds fault they bought what should be the safest asset type ~ sovereign debt ~ nor are they responsible for the Greeks having spent money they couldn't afford to repay or the lack of Eurozone control & discipline which allowed them to. Hedge funds are a bit more questionable as they are driven by short term speculative profits but even they don't set out to lend to high-risk assets unless there is a huge discount to offset risk.

    It's not capitalism which is forcing Greece back to the bond markets, it's that they are not collecting enough in taxes to pay for what the country has spent (loan repayments and bond maturities) and is spending. It's perfectly justified for the markets not to want to buy Greek & other debt if it looks like they can't repay it or if they do choose to lend, to charge high rates to reflect the increased risk that part/all of the monies lent won't be repaid. It didn't help either the EZ deciding that commercial lenders would have to take a haircut (lose)... did they expect the markets to shrug and say 'okay much higher risk but we'll still buy your impaired government bonds'?

    I do agree that the Greeks are being told to achieve the impossible by fellow EZ members, that there is absolutely no 'solidarity' and that these levels of cuts could not be implemented by any of those countries pulling the bailout strings. If the banks etc are at fault for lending so too are the ECB and other countries. The commercial lenders are being told to volunteer to take a c70% loss and roll their debts at an interest rate which doesn't cover risk so the EZ can maintain the farce that Greece isn't already in technical default. Why should the ECB/governments holders of Greek debt expect to be treated differently and not take the same loss?

    Greece is responsible but so too is the Eurozone for allowing such high borrowing (not just in Greece), for not having adequate controls and for not auditing applicants for membership for political expediency. The Greek politicians are at best incompetent if not outright crooks and they're also utterly spineless for going along with the total destruction (economically, socially and democratically) of their country.

    <rant over>

    I think it's clear now what my view is :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  5. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    THE THALMOR ARE MEDDLING WITH GREECE!THEY DEMAND SACRFICES!To aaaaaarms to aaarms!Heeeeed the calllll!
     
  6. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    All i want is a G3A3 rifle. I still remember all the army training and i m ready to kill! Give the orders Foin!!!
     
  7. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    On the news earlier it said latest EuroZone plan being considered is to give Greece enough money to cover until after the elections and only do the full bailout2 once the successful party had committed to the austerity measures. Makes a bit a mockery of democracy doesn't it? You choose the 'wrong' party and EZ waves Greece goodbye. What's the point in holding the election at all?
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    G3A3?Really?That's what you want?I thought that rifled sucked :S
     
  9. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    true but these are available! and trust me can kill!
     
  10. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    EU dictates european folks...
     
  11. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ Personally I think EZ are trying to push Greece so hard that EZ is either ends up with full veto over all tax/spending, they say no more cash as the Greek policitians aren't delivering (which they haven't / can't) or the Greeks are so humiliated that they prefer to walk away and default.

    Another interesting opinion piece on the diminished risks of cutting Greece loose, the EZ mood is certainly hardening:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17062333
     
  12. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Interesting article. Well i don't know what else future will bring but i m 200% sure that my country gonna default.
     
  13. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Interesting game demonstrating what a hopeless snarl this whole situations is. (Originally from here but I linked to the HTML version.)
     
  14. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ Oh dear... basically unless you can get your nice EZ partners to give fiscal transfers, writing down debt you're knackered whichever way you turn.

    Another interesting if slightly depressing article/opinion piece....

    Struggling Greeks losing belief in the state
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17067104
     
  15. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    sad reality...
     
  16. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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  17. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Nigel Farage is the guy! I prefer him than every single greek politician...

    Something that is need to be mentioned is that there was a good move of German citizens who live and work in Greece and who gathered yesterday outside of the German ambasady in Athens. Greek police was ordered to arrest them...

    German protesters.jpg


    An image is better than thousand words... Hope that German's politician will understand and let my country free.../COLOR]
     
  18. Firiath

    Firiath Halfling barbarian

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    Let your country free? You sound like Germany is occupying your country. It's not all in the hands of German politicians, just by the way.
     
  19. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Yes my country is occupied by a prime minister that is not elected and sent here by Germany to sell in cheap prices all the greek national companies. my country is not allowed to default till they sell everything that belongs to greek people.... Greek people ask elections right now. But Germany needs time to save the banks... so they postponed election to march... Athens is burning.... This situation is like occupation.
    At least people around the world support us...


    Sydney.jpg

    amsterdam.jpg
     
  20. Firiath

    Firiath Halfling barbarian

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    Is it right that the Greek prime minister is Lucas Papademos? If so, I can't find anything about his affiliation with Germany.