should the Silmarillion be a movie

Discussion in 'Movies' started by boromir_the_ranger, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. Mandos

    Mandos New Member

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    yea, but it is too long to be a movie, my fellow
     
  2. Cactuskim

    Cactuskim New Member

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    Hi all,

    I love the storys in the Silmarillion, but to try and make the whole book into a movie just wouldn't work no matter how badly you might want it to.

    Even though the stories are all tied together by the common theme of the the War of the Jewels and all of them effect one another in one way or another in the long term, in the short term, they are compleatly seperate stories. They just are not cohesive enough to work as a movie.

    Reading the Silmarillion is like reading a History book. It covers a long period of time and rambles a great deal. The events individually are important, some more so than the others. Some events have a direct effect on one another, and others do not. Individual events can be very involved and interesting and yet not be that important in the long run. and some of the most seemingly trivial events can be terribly important when viewed as part of the whole. No single event can be accuratly viewed or evaluated if taken out of context without at least some consideration as to how it fits into the whole.

    If you break down the Silmarillion and only do an individual story out of it You are taking that story out of context and I don't think it would work.

    Example; the story of Beren and Luthien. it would seem like a simple and straight forward love story and adventure that could be culled out of the rest and told easily on film, but I don't think so. The story is much more complex than you realize and it just isn't a question of explaining the signifigance of the Sillmaril.

    How do you explain Beren's appearance in Doriath and the condition that he is in? That is a huge story right there... do you cut the whole thing, Gut it? or tell it all?

    How do you explain Why Finrod Felegund would walk away from a kingdom and safety to go on a Suicide mission with a vagabond who is a total stranger without telling the story behind the the giving of the ring of Barahir? Do you make Finrod an Idiot by not telling anything or glossing over it? or do you cut Finrod out of the story compleatly? Because if you try to tell enough of that story to make Finrod's motives clear, you are getting into a telling of the whole war of the Jewels again.

    How do you explain the murder of Thingol and the fall of Doriath after Beren finally suceeds in his quest without going into Morgoth's theft of the Jewels, the rebellion of the Noldor, the Oaths the son's for Feanor swore, the Kinslayings etc... You know what I mean, the reason why the Jewels are a curse not a blessing to anyone that encounters them? Beause the only way around that one is to change the whole end of the story and have everybody just live happily ever after. Hollywood and people who have never read the books would love that, but do *YOU* really want that?

    You are forgetting that the Silmarillion is a collection of interrelated tragedies all tied together by the theme of the War of the Jewels. Try to pull out that thread, and the whole thing falls apart. Try to tell the whole thing, and it becomes too complex for Hollywood. The LOTR was a longer set of books, and a very complex story, but it was *ONE* story. The Silmarillion is a group fo differant stories woven together with the single theme of the War of the Jewels. Try to tell those stories without their connecting theme and they are not the Silmarilion.

    Hollywood would BUTCHER it, even PJ. Think of all that had to be cut out of the LOTR movies and how dissapointed and upset people were. No Scouering of the Shire, the change in Faramir's character, No Bombadil, Arwin Princess Warrior :rolleyes: *sheesh* can you imagine what Hollywood would do to Luthien?! she really did do some fantastic stuff in the books, but that would not be enough for Hollywood, they would have a Heyday with her!

    What would Hollywood do with the Incest aspect of the story of Turin? *Shudder* Do you see how scary this could get?

    They would hack out stuff that is subtle but horrably important, and dwell on the sensational.

    The Silmarilion is too complex, subtle and disjointed to make into a movie. (Don't yell at me for calling it disjointed, you know what I mean. The storys are wonderful and the interlocking theme is beautiful, but it does not flow well. It jumps around and you have to have a good memory and take a step back to look at the whole to really appriciate it... A skill beyond Hollywood or the General movie going public.)

    Can any of you honestly say that you think that hollywood would do a good job with this? Do you really want to see it slaughtered like they did to I Robot? (And that was a simple story!)

    *Sigh* If I thought that there was even the slightest chance of it being done well, I would be on board in a second, but I just don't see it happening.

    Cactuskim

    PS where the heck is the spell check on this thing? *Arrrgggghhhh!* Sorry for any spelling errors.
     
  3. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    It should be a series (around 30 or so) of anime shorts. There is no reason why it wouldnt work. It might even be the only way to show some of the more fantatic elements of the Sil anyway.
     
  4. Cactuskim

    Cactuskim New Member

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    30 Anime shorts?

    So, you think that the darkest, most serious and complicated of all of Tolkien's works should be made into a cartoon series?

    You should go get a job in Hollywood, you will fit right in.

    Cactuskim
     
  5. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Ouch.

    I agree with all your earlier points Cactuskim, and if you had read the rest of the thread, you would realize most of us said similiar things.

    However, your comment about anime seems skewed. Your probably only familiar with the *cough*anime*cough* series like Pokemon and Dragonball Z, however there are some extremely dark, meaningful and twisted animes out there that tell brilliant stories with interesting and varied characters. Neon Genesis Evangelion, for example.

    I think that Silmarillion could work as an anime, my only problem is cutting up the story into shorts, its my opinion that the story needs to stay as one, and for that reason the Sil can't, and probably shouldn't be made into a movie.
     
  6. Cactuskim

    Cactuskim New Member

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    Hi Elan Morin Tedronai,

    My intention was not to Dis Anime. I'm not familar with the programs that you mentioned, but I can see how it could be used to tell some very good stories both dark and light. My problem was with the Idea that you should cut the Silmarilion into 30 segments, and then you combine that with the temptation to white wash certian elements in order to accomodate the bulk of the anime market and you have a disaster..

    Yes adults do watch anime, but so do children, and the ratio is not balanced towards the adults. The Silmarillion has subject matter that is not appropriate for children. The increased Violence leval alone makes the LOTR and Hobbit look mild, and don't forget that in the Silmarilion it is not just bad guys verses the good guys,,, some of the 'Good guys' in the sil are pretty evil at times. So you are looking at an 'R' rating just there alone. You can't tell the story of Turin and his sister without an 'R' rating either. . The torture and murder of Findulas. the kinslayings and the abandonment of Elwings tiny twin brothers after the sack of Doriath. These are things that children should not have to deal with... even many older ones. and if it is animated, there are going to be people who assume that because it IS animated, these things will be removed, and therefore drag their children to see it. Or they will not have read the books and think that because it is animated and has the Tolkien name attached, it will be ok for the Kids never realizing just what the Sil is..

    So, that means that someone would have to sell Hollywood on an 'R' rated cartoon series, or else they would have to white wash and gut the story. I think that I know which way Hollywood would go don't you?

    BTY, I did read the whole thread before posting, and the only reason that I went ahead and posted myself was that it seemed like people kept popping up who seemed to either not have read the whole thread themselves, or they did read it and just didn't get the point. so I figured that I would try to gather them all together along with my own and see if that would make any sense to them.

    I would also like to appologize to kartaron. My comment about you and Hollywood was Snide and uncalled for. I understand that you are just very enthusastic about a story you like and felt that you saw a way of bringing it to the screne... very tempting... but in you enthusiasm you forgot the people and establishment that your idea would ultamately be at the mercy of.

    There is an old chinese curse that I think applys to this: Beware what you wish for... You may get it.

    Cactuskim
     
  7. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    No offense taken. You should see Akira, Princess Mononoke and Kill Bill before you rule out anime. Most anime is intended for an adult audience. In fact I would say 90% of all anime has "17 and up" warning labels on the case. As for appealing to wide audiences, I would rather see the Sil be done accurately and fail as a business venture than to see it edited at all. I dont believe that the Sil could be a mainstream hit like LOTR was. That is why I dont think a movie is a possible option. At least not until CG becomes very very cheap.

    Besides, CG is the same as animation. CG is just shinier.

    I thought the Sil would work very well in shorts. Starting with the song of the arda scene it changes tone constantly, following one set of characters and then another... It seemed to me to be perfect for an animatrix setup even with different artists for each piece so long as they are required to execute the book as written.
     
  8. Boadicea

    Boadicea Warrior Queen

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    No, it would ruin the story, I think. Sure, LOTR made a good film, but it was written in a completely different style. The Silmarillion is much more vague, and I don't see how even the best director could make it work as a movie. For example, how could they depict the Valar? And what about Illuvatar? Somehow, I don't think filming the gods would work.
     
  9. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    nope, not a good idea.
     
  10. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    The stories are all interwoven, but I think that it could be possible to break them up separately and get a couple of good movies. Like focus on Beren and Luthien, or something. It's the only way we'd really ever get any kind of a live-action version of any of them, if you ask me.
     
  11. Elkean

    Elkean New Member

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    This is a very interesting question and a hard one to answer. To the tolkien fan the Silmarillion as a movie would probably be great (you get to see the Valar, Melkor, and Valinor). Plus, we would be able to see the creation of all the races: elves, dwarves, men, ents. Also there would be a bunch of fighting in it as well, but there are also a bunch of slow and boring parts which my disinterest a non-tolkien/random movie-goer. My personal opinion is I would love to see the Sil as a movie.
     
  12. Gil-Galad_360

    Gil-Galad_360 Aran Noldorin

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    Well, I would really like to see The Silmarillion become a movie, of course the one I have in mind to make is Peter Jackson, like Elan Morin said it would be hard to make fit into 2 1/2 hours, so it could be a good idea if they made it in three installments like LOTR, each one containing the most important battles and events in the chapters of the book.
     
  13. Black Tattoo

    Black Tattoo The Corruptor

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    I think if they could figure out a way to blend the stories together, "Silmarillion" would make a fantastic movie!
     
  14. Higginsjaz

    Higginsjaz Higginsjaz

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    Nobody would have the attention span for a silmarillion movie
     
  15. Kakashi

    Kakashi Call me Deacon Blues

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    i don't think it should be a movie, it wouldn't turn out good in cinema
     
  16. Mystarian

    Mystarian Magistrate of the Earth

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    No, I think that their is just way too much mystical things in it. Not just that, but of the other books, it would be the hardest to capture Tolkien's books. Peter Jackson probaly got a 59/41 of doing this just for the Lord of the Rings.
     
  17. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    not a film, but series. there's just too much of it to put it all in a single film.
     
  18. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    Probably would have to be a 15 billion episode series to capture everything.
     
  19. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    It's be a pretty huge undertaking ~ even 'small' stories like Túrin Turambar or Berin and Luthien are themselves spread over years. It'd be difficult to capture the enormity of the scale of time/events in a film so they'd have to use plenty of creative license :)
     
  20. hendy

    hendy New Member

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    Hated the book as seen in "Your worst book ever read" thread so i wouldnt even bother going to see the movie or series,, and it hasnt had the exposure that LOTR or The hobbit have had so i could never see it being financially viable for any movie company except to make a few fantasy lovers happy.
     
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