Should smoking be banned?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Adina, May 3, 2005.

  1. Warlock Lord

    Warlock Lord I am a Fashion Statement

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    no it doesnt!

    Were going to have to agree to disagree here. For me smokers choose to mess themselves up and end up spending months if not years in the health system.

    Heres a bit of a calculation for you. You would have to smoke 20 cigarettes a day for 18 years (at todays tax prices - in Ireland) for lung cancer treatment for one year.
    Dont ever make the argument that smokers pay their medical care through cigarette VAT!
     
  2. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    UK ~ tobacco duty/vat pays approx 10% of the National Health Service budget.

    I'm not pro-smoking at all but if you're going to link treatment->cause->contribution then you're opening a can of worms... what about diet, alcohol, activities, genetics and on the list goes.
     
  3. Warlock Lord

    Warlock Lord I am a Fashion Statement

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    i wonder how much of the NHS budget is used for illnesses caused by smoking... I know that smoke related illnesses and diseases costs the NHS £1.7Billion a year.
     
  4. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    We'll have to disagree then. Getting pregnant is no less of a choice than starting to smoke. Same goes for heart attacks from cocaine use or fertility treatments or sex changes. It's my argument that you can't exclude one choice but include another just because you don't like or partake in it.

    And your cost analysis: You also have to consider that only a percentage of smokers contract cancer. By your calculations that you would have to smoke a pack a day for 18 years, but if only one in 8 get cancer (which is not the actual number, it's much less) that means that tab is paid in 3 years.

    What about smokers that quit after 10 years and never get cancer, can they get a rebate? :p
     
  5. Celticberserker

    Celticberserker New Member

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    Can't agree more with Skyanide; I suffer from Aspergers syndrome. Thus my mental tolerance towards most drugs is dangerously inferior to that of the average person; my risk of developing schizophrenia from excessive drug use is pretty high, if not bound to happen at some point of regular drug use.

    Many people opposed to Tobacco still smoke pot (Smoke it green obviously), many people debate Marijuana or Cannabis is far safer than Tobacco... Unfortunately that's not entirely true for many of those under the age of 20 or older, and definitely true for those suffering from Aspergers, ADD, ADHD, BPS or other syndromes.

    So do those who pop pills or lace their food with hashish more deserving of the benefits of government health care than that of people who smoke tobacco when they go schizophrenic or bi-polar...

    But they had a gun put to their head and were forced into drugs?

    I got no issues with pot, I do the shit myself from time to time... And I'm not saying that if you do drugs YOU WILL GO SCHIZOPHRENIC. But if you're unlucky enough to actually form some kind of mental illness or even physical health problems from other drugs... Then in what sense are you better or not as bad as a smoker?

    Also many alcoholics beat the shit out of their own families and form severe liver, blood pressure or kidney problems... But alcohol abuse isn't a choice?
     
  6. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    I personally know more people who died driving drunk or by a drunk driver than I do from smoking yet nobody is calling for a ban on alcohol.
     
  7. Celticberserker

    Celticberserker New Member

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    Personally I hope they never do. If a smoking ban ever came to pass, I honestly can live without smokes... But you take away booze from Celtic folk and St.Patrick's day will be all about throwin molotov's at government buildings and rioting on the street... So in fact St.Patricks day would be more or less the same.

    Look just don't take my piss away.
     
  8. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    No. Two separate but intertwined things there. I don't like smoking. AND I believe the sooner it's phased out of human existence the better. I'm no lawmaker, how could me thinking something just make it happen?


    Eh, try and limit the threats of violence thing, tends not to go down well with the authorities.


    Okay, that IS ridiculous.




    The Aussie governmen has slowly and steadily been making smoking less affordable and less encouraged, I hope it continues, then in the future (hopefully my lifetime) smoking wll be phased out by social demand, which can then be followed by legislation. It has to come from societal demand first though, and public opinion has been turning against smoking for quite some time now.

    Using just my own country as the example I linked in the new story a coupel pages ago, smoking injects $1 billion into the economy per year, but costs it $31 billion. Based on those numbers, it's no wonder community opinion has been turning against smoking.

    if and when, maybe in the year 2100, tobacco is eradicated from the modern world, people living in the future will look back at us and think "Why on earth would they ever have smoked that stuff???"



    I often wish I had a "What If" simulator. I'd ask it "What if humanity never discovered drinkable alcohol?"
    Removing alcohol entirely would mean no surgical alcohol which is pretty important. But every culture across the world has found ways to drink fermented stuff. It's brought trade and wealth, but also misery, violence and illness.
    I'd really love someone to do a "what if" for a world free of alcohol, I reckon it'd be quite interesting.
     
  9. Celticberserker

    Celticberserker New Member

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    LIAR! THE ABORIGINALS NEVER FERMENTED OR DISTILLED ALCOHOL!

    Although amazingly enough the Polynesians did... They used to do it by punching a hole into a coconut and sticking raw sugar into it and then leaving it for a while. Well I'm not sure if it's that simple or it works exactly that way.
     
  10. Fabled_Tales

    Fabled_Tales Middle Earth Ewok

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    People will smoke wether its illegal or not, I believe banning when it bothers others. I.E., restaurants, smoking in your car (its the same as texting or using cell phone) or at hospitals. Ban smoking outside though, not so sure. Think thats a bit far.
     
  11. Utterly Unhinged

    Utterly Unhinged He knows you know.

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    I can only speak for Britain (and even then only from a personal perspective), but over here the obese cost more to treat on the NHS than smokers. The day they ban people from stuffing burgers in their mouths is the day I'll give up my cigarettes.
     
  12. Forgotten Realms

    Forgotten Realms Human Version of Drizzt

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    Well, I am sure that you cannot ban things. People will do it anyway and the allurement is even greater when something is forbidden. Nowadays most smokers are banned from the restaurants smoking outside. In the company I work in you even have to leave company ground to smoke and use control clock.

    I think there should be an extra room with a door that can be closed in every restaurant for smokers.

    Mostly, people used to say former smokers are the worst opponents. Well, I do not see me like that as during all those 26 years I have been smoking I went outdoors. I could not stand the smell. So it is still but I do not mind others smoking beside me if it is not in chains. Fortunately, I have given up smoking in May 2006, but my heart and feeling is still with the smokers as treatment and rules are really getting worse.

    I think the decision is up to each individual self and should not be brought on by restrictions or violence.
     
  13. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    "An it harm none, do what ye will."

    If it's just you smoking away from anyone else, that harms nobody but yourself. Go for it.

    If it's just you smoking away from anyone else, and you get cancer or heart disease, and expect others to pay for your medical treatment, that harms others, so no go.

    If you smoke in a setting that will cause others difficulty with their breathing and make them smell like an ashtray, that is affecting others so no go.
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Same could be said of those who eat hundreds of pounds of junk food every year.

    Why should I, a smoker, pay for their inevitable health problems?.. or for that matter why should I pay for the healthcare of someone who doesn't manage stress well, or becomes depressed?

    Yes, I smoke... but I also eat healthy foods, am at the proper weight, exercise daily and lead an active life.

    As far as secondhand smoke... most of it is fear tactics by groups lobbying the government for strict laws to be passed. No one has ever had written on their death certificate "died as a result of secondhand smoke". Studies have shown a slight increase in heart disease and other expected problems among those who have been exposed to secondhand smoke, but nothing more than that.

    Besides, smoking is cool. ;)
     
  15. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    "You pay to die" said a really old teacher once! Well i think that smoking must be a free choice to all people. But when some people don't smoke and a smoker is near them in a public area then the smoker need to find a private place to smoke. And its not a matter of health is a matter of respect to others and their choices.
     
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    True. I don't think m quality of life would be harmed if McDonalds started getting taxed heavily like cigarettes are. I could still choose to do it, but my limited income would mean I'd buy it even less than I already do.