Should smoking be banned?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Adina, May 3, 2005.

  1. Adina

    Adina <img src=http://www.thefantasyforum.com/images/nub

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    2009 edit - this thread started out talking about banning smoking in pubs and clubs in Oz, I've also merged it with a later thread along similar themes - Mububban

    Ok I'm not sure what's happening in all other parts of the world, but here in Australia, they're trying to ban smoking in pubs and clubs. What do you think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
  2. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    I think they should. I hate smoking, but besides that, passive smoking is very dangerous. And while the smoker at some club has made the choice to smoke, non-smokers aren't getting that choice with him smoking in tight, cramped quarters with him. They should be allowed to smoke outside the venue, not inside.
     
  3. The Man from Niefldarth

    The Man from Niefldarth your worst nightmare!

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    nope. banning smoking in places like restaurants and things like that, it's okay. but a pub isn't a pub if it hasn't a cloud of smoke floating above the pool table. (btw, I hate the smell of cigarette, and i'm a non smoker, but boy! they're about to legalize pot, but at the same time, cigarette will be banned? wtf?


    (I don't say that because I think they shoud not legalize marijuana. on the contrary, I think they should, but it's in another debate.)
     
  4. Arwen

    Arwen Well-Known Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    It's banned at bars in NY...its great. I can't stand smoke so I won't go to places that have a lot of it.
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    Yes yes, hell yes. I love living in Australia. I hate not being able to breathe, and having an asthmatic girlfriend, someone smoking in a confined space could literally kill her.

    Me standing here and not smoking doesn't harm you. It doesn't make you nauseous, doesn't make your breathing difficult, and doesn't give you cancer. You smoking near me can do all of those things.

    I find most smokers highly inconsiderate when smoking, and they'll loudly proclaim their indignation if someone tells them to butt out or move a few steps away. If I were to walk up to a smoker and spray rotten egg gas at them, or fart right in their face, I reckon they'd get pretty bloody angry and tell me where to go. Yet they don't see the connection for non-smokers complaining about them emitting cancerous smoke into the air.
    One of my best friends is a smoker, and he knows how non-smokers hate breathing smoke, so he always stands downwind of us, and/or blows the smoke over our heads and away from us to minimise the impact. And it works. Easy for him to do, and it makes everyone around him more comfortable. And he always goes outside to smoke, even in his own home. I think that's because his wife would kill him if he ever did it inside though :)

    I also don't like smokers standing right outside a door and smoking. Air pressure then sucks the smoke into the building, so what's the point? I believe some places are enforcing a 5 metre distance rule for smokers and doorways.

    I despise tobacco products, they could ban cigarettes altogether and I'd be a happy man. But that'll never happen as long as the tax dollars from tobacco products keep rolling in.
     
  6. Legend

    Legend Made in NZ

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    Its already in effect over here in NZ, cant smoke in pubs clubs resturants etc...although I think restuarants have smoking areas..not sure...havent been out to dinner in err cant remember how long....anyway its great, my sis works in a casino and she says you can smell BO and farts more now LOL, cigarette smoke must have masked the smell before, me Im a non smoker.

    All the bars and restaurants are now giving lots of work to builders for "outside areas", could be a bit nippy in winter though hehe.
     
  7. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    It can't be denied that beer and tabacco go hand in hand on the night out. It's the ultimate feeling of leisure, beer in one hand, *** in the other. Apparently... I don't smoke, for all clarity.

    Anyway, people are looking for that feeling in pubs, and I think the pubowners would be greatly hindered by a non-smoking law. And so far, I heared no one about alternatives, so let's have them.

    Pubs could be forced to install filtering systems that would limit smoke levels to an acceptable level. this way, the smokers can have their cigarettes and the non-smokers can... well... breathe. And I do see the limitations of this, since the smoke exhaled by the smokers will end up not in the filter, but pass 15 noses before that, but hey... It's a compromise, and better than the current situation...

    Then, designated smoking areas could become compulsory for those pubs who want to continue to welcome smokers and their cigarettes. In some magical way, the air pollution in the non-smokers area should be kept below a certain value for the plan to work. Again, I see ventilation systems as the main workhorse here. This way, non-smokers can enjoy their beers as well as oxygen, where the smokers (and those who choose to be there) will remain in their familiar thick shroud of tar.

    As a sidenote I'd like to say that these limitations should not go for designated smoking houses, like cigar clubs. People who choose to go there, already decided that they enjoy the ambience of smoke, and often like to contribute to that. No need to say that banning smoking here would benefit none.

    *** - there is absolutely no crime in using the word f-a-g in this contest
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2005
  8. Sorcha

    Sorcha Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    I agree about the cigar houses.

    The odd thing is, really, that very few smokers absolutely HAVE to have a cigarette at the table, say in a restaurant or something. My uncle is a 2 and a half pack a day smoker, and he can usually wait, and if he can't, he just goes outside for a bit.

    Even at it's most crowded, I rarely see anyone smoking at the table. It only takes one cigarette to permeate most of the restaurant, and ruin mine and any other asthmatic's evening. I am a relatively minor asthmatic, and for me, it makes me sick for a few days if there is someone smoking, even if they are in the smoking section.

    I did some research and found many cigarette ventilation systems, and filters and things...but what strikes me as odd is that more businesses haven't implemented one of these things. Or they did, and the things don't work, because I'm definitely still miserable going out to eat where they have a smoking section, or to a club.

    I'm not sure that's the case. I know a few smokers, and none were happy with the fact they smoked. They said they wanted to quit, and had tried many times, but failed. But this is just my experience.

    And not only that, they banned smoking in the pubs and bars in Ireland.

    Interesting article on that from the BBC

    and an update from msnbc

    The second link notes that there was a drop in bar revenues, falling 6.3 percent since 2004, but the people who frequent the bars and pubs seem to agree with the ban, attributing the fall in sales to "high prices and lifestyle changes [rather] than the smoking ban." I guess that a few more years under the ban will show what will occur in the long run.

    A couple of websites said that 70 percent of people who smoke say they want to quit. On a side note, people that smoke in the US is at 25%.

    I guess my views are rather skewed because smoke really does bother me that much. And I have people in my family, who are starting to feel the effects of cigarette smoke, one who cannot go into a restaurant at all if someone is smoking, for health reasons.

    It's a smoker's right to kill themselves slowly, but rights only extend so far until they infringe upon someone else's. "You can only swing your fist freely until it connects with someone's nose." lol.
     
  9. Adina

    Adina <img src=http://www.thefantasyforum.com/images/nub

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    Personally, I think that if people want to smoke, that's fine but I don't want a part of it. Generall most clubs and many pubs have different areas with a couple or even several bars. Why not make one particular area in each place specifically for smoking?
    And for those bars and clubs that don't have more than one room, I believe smoking should be banned from that place altogether.
    Oh, and they should still have super great air conditioning.
     
  10. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    First of all... I dont smoke cigarettes and I am prone to asthma. I have been in clubs where the smoke was so thick my eyes would burn the next day from all the ash. That said I do not think any company should be legally required to ban smoking in their buildings unless they are public service buildings(hospitals, town hall, etc.). If a company wants to ban smoking on their own initiative, fine. If not, the most restriction a government should be able to enforce is a public notice declaring that you are entering a smoking zone (possible listing the dangers like a pack of cigaretes). Anyone willing to enter the zone does so at their own risk.

    If there is a market for non-smoking clubs then the clubs will become non-smoking on their own.

    Smoking on personal property should not be made illegal.
     
  11. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    I agree that people with a medical intolerance to tobacco smoke complicate the issue. Why, for instance smokers do have the right to go in a bar, but with that making the place no go zone for the intolerant... It's a tough one. And whether the smokers have more right to speak, since "it always has been this way", is very disputable indeed.

    That said, I still don't think it's somehow fair to totally ban smoking from pubs and bars and such. I think the opportunity should be given to the respective owners to offer clean air in at least half of their establisments. How they plan on achieving this - total smoking ban, designated smoking areas, filter systems, smokers lounges or a combination of the former - is up to them.

    I can see the arguements for a total ban also, but I'd say compromise. Give everyone a word and a chance. Yes, the total ban should get rid of the smokers problem, whether with or without a (temporal) revenue loss. I just think that modern technology and society creates room for alternatives, and it would be strange, foolish perhaps not to use them.

    As to the smokers not liking themselves for being smokers... I think part of them tells them not to, but often they will find out that they can't stop and give in to their habits. Appart from that personal struggle, they do experience a sense of joy, or rather satisfaction. And satisfaction goes quite well with a pint...
     
  12. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    hell no. Turambar, nice avy.
     
  13. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    thanks, Beren
     
  14. Senekha

    Senekha <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    I agree with Elan when he says that when a smoker smokes in a pub, it removes the choice of a smoke-free pub for those who do not smoke. I think that smoking should be banned in pubs, but a smoking area should be created - whether in another room, or across the street, or in the parking lot....whatever.

    The bottom line is, people should be able to go to a pub and not worry about getting cancer or other terminal illnesses because other people are smoking.
     
  15. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    So if I wanted to open a bar (or pub) with the express intent of creating a place where people could drink, smoke and listen to music... that should be illegal?

    What if I name the place "Drinking, Smoking and Rock'n'Roll" ... Is that not warning enough? Why cant me and my friends have a place where we can do that? So maybe it is mildly exclusionary... is it so bad if we dont want the company of people who are so sensitive to smoke that they may just curl up and die if someone is smoking a cigarette? How about if you enter my business you submit to a few of my desires? Its not like its a grocery store that you have to enter on occasion to survive. Its a freakin' PUB.

    by the way- I heard on the radio that germany will soon make it illegal to smoke in your own car. Im sure california will notice that they have been one-upped so will require all smokers (and victims of halitosis) reguardless of location (including post-coital) to wear gas masks that purify the air as they exhale smoke thereby creating a solution and a social stigma..
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2005
  16. Adina

    Adina <img src=http://www.thefantasyforum.com/images/nub

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    You have a point there Kartaron. Maybe it would be wiser to say that some bars/pubs/clubs should be smoking and some shouldn't? If they were listed in directories of either and signs stating whether they are smoking or non-smoking, that would at least give the people the choice.

    Personally, I'd like to knock out the idiot who invented them, along with every other bad habit on this god forsaken planet. (sorry about the outburst but it's true)
     
  17. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    This is the exact same view that I have.
     
  18. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    well said.
     
  19. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    I don't think the angle would be about stopping smoking as in the context of a pub or club.

    Studies have proven that talking on mobile phones are changing CDs etc while driving distract the brain and contribute to more car accidents. Smoking is just another distraction that takes your mind off what you're doing, takes your hands off the wheel, and I'm sure the odd bit of hot ash in someone's crotch has caused a few anxious moments behind the wheel :)

    Also, smoking in a car when you've got your kids in there is really bad. Apparently it's the worst for passive smoking, being in such a confined space. Even with the windows down, you can't get away from it. Chances are they'r epushing a health and safety angle more than controlling your life. At least, that's the angle they're pushing in Australia re smoking in cars, and I agree with it on both counts.
     
  20. Legend

    Legend Made in NZ

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    Re: Should smoking be banned in pubs

    i bought a newish car a few weeks ago (04 falcon) and it doesnt have any ash trays or lighters, you have to buy a smokers kit. But as a non smoker this rocks cos now smokers cant smoke in my car hehe, not that I'd let them anyway. But it shows attitudes in the car industry are also changing, are there any other brands of car like this?