Should Greece be excluded from EU?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by anonymous, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Just heard at local news, that if Greece would be exclued , the finaces for rest EU, would be significantly better. It said the main reason for excluding is Wrong economical reports, lies in fact, about economical situations. It will create huge crisis in most EU countries. If Greece would have told about the real situation it would be much better, and EU could have created the way to fix it.
    And it now says, the Greece have less to offer EU, so it is disadvantageous to save it, and i kind of agree, what can Greece offer? turisms, there is lot cheaper and prettier places to go. Education, havent ever hear about some good schools there? Resources? what kind of?

    I think it should be exlcued, or atleast pay huge fine for lies etc.
     
  2. Sevi

    Sevi Pocałunek!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    As Turambar once explained to me, the EU will lose more money from excluding us than help us recover. Though I think that it was a bad idea that we got into EU from the beginning. Some people got richer while the country is suffering more and more ever since.

    Though I too agree that our politicians brought that to our country there is another point of view that claims otherwise. Or at least it claims that there's more than meets the eye (did I use that correctly..?)Anyway, Ill just post the video cause that guy will explain it better than me..sorry for the greek subs.

     
  3. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    This is not really an objective, but Greece is a great country. I would be sad if it left the EU. Cause it makes me proud that it's part of it. Maybe that's a rather naive way to look at it, but that's just the way I feel.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    no problem at all. Yeah in fact my country have 2 chooses, join Russain federation, or join EU. Both would do damage. But Greece as well as Latvia, juts did too much thet EU aksed, so thats why we are in this curect sitatuion
     
  5. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    If EU expels Greece then i see no point in any other country joining it. If EU isn't going to help their members, why does it exists? It was at first created as an economical union. Later the rest came. So economy is still the most important, and if they exclude Greece, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole of EU falling, or even fragmenting.
     
  6. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Well Greece's tourism is exceptional and it is one of the main sources of income of the country.Spain and Italy and Portugal as well compete us in that section,but Greece has a tradition in that.Hard to beat it.Although sometimes,some individuals overdo it with prices(had some personal examples too long time ago in Symi).But if you wonder where all the Brits,Germans and Slavs are during the summer,check Greece :p

    True,our politicians have been lying and scamming both the EU and us here.Sevi can tell you about it.They keep "eating" money that are supposed to be for public works and the common good.However,good Greek people always vote the same two parties that have been blood-sucking us for 30 years :rolleyes:

    It's not random that before the elections the current ruling party was promising stuff they couldn't simply do and the when the rest of the parties asked "Where will you find 1 billion Euros Mr.Papandreou?(or whatever the amount of money was)" they didn't get a clear answer.Well now we know.More taxes and more taxes.Taxes increased everywhere since this week.Some salaries and bonuses disappeared.Pensions "froze".
    And everybody in Greece was talking about the porn video of a model/singer.

    Please expel us from the European Union.PLEASE I WANT DRACHMAS BACK!

    The Athens 2004 Olympics actually ruined us more than helped us I think.

    On top of that we're getting WAY too high amounts of legal and illegal immigrants the last few years than we can sustain.

    But one more thing in Greece is that when politicians do a scandal they refuse to step down from the office they hold and retire.Noooo they just want to rule and rule and rule and they blame each other for the country's predicament.

    EDIT: Anonymous asked "Resources? what kind of?"

    And I reply: Oil my friend.Oil in the Aegean.The one that mysteriously nobody lets us(yes even our own governments)extract.This is what the big game is all about between Greece and Turkey in the Aegean Sea.Oil that if extracted could give Greece about 50% self-sufficiency let alone make us all richer by profiting from the extraction and contracts from other countries.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  7. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    It was first created to create a common market. Economic, political and monetary union have steadily been added. I think nations need to take a leap of faith... either fully commit with nations becoming states within a combined European nation with all major governance (financial and political) conducted at the centre or exit entirely if that's not what they want.
     
  8. AlphaAlex

    AlphaAlex Official Forum Nuisance

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Ok I'm no where near Europe but this sounds so damn stupid. Wasn't the whole idea of the EU to get all the countries in Europe stronger.. this means taking the weak with the strong, to help build each other?

    why would you exclude a country? does that mean you will then exclude another.. then another? then another?... till there are only a few left?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  9. Springmaus

    Springmaus New Member

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    i don't see problem. Greece has been existed for many years before EU, and will exist after it. Let EU expel it (Gr is a weak link), europe'll breathe easily. greek people shall survive anyway)) i'm sure
     
  10. Springmaus

    Springmaus New Member

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?


    i think u r wrong. it seems to me that general idea of EU is to get everything cheaper, to get everywhere faster and to have more money to divide. Greece now doesn't correspond to this conditions
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  11. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Here's a solution:

    Create a Euro-army and actually guarantee our security against Turkey.Make us feel safe againt Turkey so we can stop this crazy arms race and save gigantic amounts of money for acquiring weapons and maintaining the ones we already have!


    Second: The Germans keep mocking us because of the financial situation ignoring the fact that we are buying weapons from them(small arms,tanks even submarines)and we've been cooperating with them on this department plus that German companies are involved in Greek scandals.

    Maybe we should switch to French or even Russian weapons!
     
  12. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    I don't think that's likely (yet) ~ a Euro-Army implies a common policy on foreign affairs and defence with a central political union and military command. Just look at the differing viewpoints held by European nations on recent hotspots and you can just see how unlikely it is. What too would happen to NATO would it continue? Overlap? Which would take precedence?
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Just bu the way, Germans have one of the highest external debt, i think even higher then Greece.
     
  14. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    That is right but shouldn't the European Union protect and guarantee the integrity of each member country?

    What would happen to NATO...hmmm....I suggest we all leave NATO and make a
    Euro-army :p

    This way we will also not have to be obliged to go help the Americans in every war they make.
     
  15. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Plus they still owe us money for war repairs from WWII.They destroyed much of the country back then.
     
  16. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    In a word no. At the current time the EU is primarily an economic trading block. I wouldn't disagree with the formation of a common defence policy for the protection of that block. How far does that extend though? Take the recent sabre-rattling by the Argentines against the Falkland Islands ~ a British Overseas Territory since 1833. If they were attacked like the '80s would our European partners help protect part of (effectively) the UK?... Thought not!

    Not much evidence of that ~ how many NATO members participated in Iraq/Afghanistan? Some supported action, others didn't.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  17. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    in fact, i just wonder, what EU have done good to us normal people, not to rich?
    All i see is higher taxes, higher prices, and lover salary.

    We should, go and suck all money out of Germany. They and EU spent billions creating LHC, but they could spent those billion saving lifes and economics.
     
  18. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    Yeah well I can't say you're wrong.But the Euro-Army exists at least in the papers.Or it's supposed to be made.Right now Europe is trying to get over economic problems like you said and remain united.That's the main thing for us.To be united when we are all so different.
     
  19. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    Not going to wade too far into this debate because I really don't have a lot of time to contribute on the long term.

    But as someone who's been around a while and has ties in finance and industry, I want to point out that economic unions (the EU, NAFTA, etc) has little to do with actually helping the citizens within said region but rather to help the WEALTHY within said reason.

    Generally speaking, under traditional country-based economics, inter-country trading is "allowed" only to a point until where the local economy starts to suffer. At which time the country's internal protectionism measures kick in -- tariffs, taxes, import duties, etc. The thinking behind this is that it is better to pay more for goods than let your own economy suffer.

    The downside to this is that from a wealthy man's point of view, this limits his ability to exploit another county's cheaper labour, another country's cheaper resources, etc. because if he makes goods too cheaply he'll get hit with a tariff trying to import it into a "suffering" country.

    By making an "economic union" it allows business to make as much money as it can without regard to local economy.

    A good example of this is in North America, where a good deal of manufacturing in the US and Canada has gone to labour-cheap Mexico, now that tariffs have been dropped. Funny, that these benefits don't extend to the common citizen -- I live 1/2 an hour away from the US-Canadian border, and if I buy things in the US, I still get hit with taxes and duties.

    I just want to dispel the myth that these unions are made for "the good of the common people". It doesn't surprise me at all that the EU would want to abandon Greece if it feels that it's outlived its "economic usefullness". The EU is a business organization, not a social one.
     
  20. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: Should Greece be exclued from EU?

    YAY! I explained something :D

    Greece is a test case. Technically, it's not possibly to throw Greece out. Appart from "politely asking", the only way is to disband the Euro and reform a new monetary union with all but Greece as members. Sev is right - this would be extremely expensive...

    There are a few ways to deal with this though. One is a national, unprecedented bail-out. But the problem is in this precedent exactly. Not intending to insult Greek members, the Greek economy is relatively small and a bail-out could easily be dealt with. However, chances are Portugal, Spain and Ireland (and who knows what else) will request exactly the same. Now, this would present the rest of the Union with a problem...

    Another way would be to have Greece sink into its own cespool. However, this would present a threat to the Euro as a whole. So the EU is sort of obligated to helping Greece. But this cannot happen too easily. Besides, Greece and its gouvernment has some lessons to learn. Screwing up doesn't come with a get-out-of-jail-free card.

    So that's where it stands. Yes, the EU will help Greece, but only after they are very certain that Greece gets its act together. In my opinion, the public sector should see their working days extended. Nowadays, the working hours are between 9 and 15. There's some slack in that...