Self-harm

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Kakashi, May 23, 2012.

?

Have you ever self-harmed?

  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    42.4%
  2. No, and I have never thought about it

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. No, but I have considered doing it before

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
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  1. Kally

    Kally Driving my own destiny.

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    Yuan, I agree with you. And I don't think you're opinion/contribution to this thread is stupid. In actuality you make the most sense, in my opinion. So far you and a couple others are the only ones who've been able to read the thread and be like, "Yeah, I get what he means, and I get what he means too." instead of "You're such an ass" "Omfg you're a dick" "I hate you for thinking the way you do."

    Kinda sad when the only times I come onto this forum there always seems to be something that's making it shit. :/
     
  2. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I don't mean to be a dick or anything but it's something really personal. Besides the people on this forum I've told maybe one other person about it. This wasn't meant to be a debate on whether people who self-harm or weak or not but that's what it turned into. I guess maybe I overreacted with that poem but it was funny. So I guess in the end I'm sorry to everyone but ray.
     
  3. Kally

    Kally Driving my own destiny.

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    It's not just your fault, Kashi. Self Harm is generally a taboo subject, so I can't say I didn't expect anything to kick off about it when I clicked into the thread, especially when Ray posted (I know all too well his views on it well before I saw what was actually said). I just guess to me it's not as... personal I guess, because in a way I agree with him. There are quite a few people in/throughout my life I've known that self harm, and I can honestly say that only one of the people does because of legitimate mental disability. The others I know/knew have always just done it for attention. The kind of people who call in the middle of the say saying things like, "Oh I was in the hospital last night, got drunk and cut my arms open, how messed up am I?" And the kind of people that show off thew scars they have. I may be wrong but I believe that's the kind of people Ray was talking about primarily.

    I suppose I'm just of the mindset when someone self harms that I can't help but think of all the people they love that they're going to leave behind, and the pain it's going to cause the people that love them. That's mainly the only reason why I can't really feel too sorry for them. I mean yeah, it's sad, and a shame that people feel that's their only escape, and I know when people do it the chances of them actually thinking of the people that love them are slim. That's what I mean when I think it's selfish and inconsiderate.

    I can understand both sides of the story I guess. And I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that it went too far. Feeling were thrown into the subject (which was inevitable really), and it was seriously just a huge clash of opinions. I know you're angry at Ray for saying what he said, but you can't say you don't understand WHY he feels the way he does about the topic. And the same is vice versa.

    Neither of you are innocent in this whole ordeal. It's like Yuan said - I like the both of you, and I respect the both of you too. You had trouble keeping a handle on your emotions with the subject, and Ray wasn't considerate about other peoples feeling when he posted. It's just going to be awkward and uncomfortable now between everyone because of this; which just wasn't going to be avoided either way.
     
  4. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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    Look, I'm going to take the high road from here on out. This little tift is over and done with for me... Everyone else can feel free to sit and wallow in it, I'd prefer you to not, but who am I to tell you what to do? Anyway, I think we have the majority of opinions on this, and that is what the polls are for. Moving right along...
     
  5. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    This thread is by far the most interesting read I had in a long time. I would want to thank everyone for participating, but I am not entirely sure that's appropriate seeing the subject or outcome.

    I have loads to say, but I think this thread is done. So, for once, I'll refrain :)
     
  6. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I think this is the only thing you've ever said that I've been able to agree with. As a former cutter, with a few relapses, this is very true. There is a calmness afterward. Which is also why I like tattoos. When I got my back done, I fell asleep because it took 2 hours to complete.

    I don't believe that fearing death is a religious thing. Believing in the afterlife or fearing what may come after (or what happened to your loved ones) does not have anything to do with religion, in my opinion. I think it's more of a giant "what if" thing. Buddhism, in one of if it's forms, speaks of the afterlife etc, but contains no god or real religious beliefs. It's a just a philosophy.

    I am very intrigued that you see a belief in a god or supernatural power a form of self-hatred. Could you explain this?

    I also would like to understand how you view the person who inflects self-harm upon themself as fully responsible for the situation. I think I see what you mean, but I'd like to be clear.

    I've only had one run-in with you sparrow, and it wasn't very pleasant. But I honestly think that there is a difference between a real person who speaks his or mind and someone who is openly insulting and cruel to other people. Perhaps you could think on that difference? Unless you already have and come to your own conclusions...




    Now, for the actual topic of the thread. Many of you know that I'm diagnosed with bipolar disorder and generalized anxiety disorder and I was briefly dealing with dissociation episodes. In high school, I cut myself to relieve the pain I was feeling emotionally that I had no way (or understanding) to express at the time. Even after I conquered that, I would have dissocative episodes where I would wake up in a bathroom, or wherever, and be covered in my own blood, not remembering cutting myself or grabbing the weapon, or anything. This happened to me again last fall.

    For me, it was never a cry for help. I hid my cuts and made sure no one saw them. I didn't want anyone to think I was weak. I never intended to kill myself, though I half-assedly attempted to once and ended up in a mental hospital for a week against my will. Some of the thoughts of self-hatred, I can't completely control. But I can control my reaction. It's all a part of cognitive-behavioural therapy. You think, "I hate myself, I am worthless." but instead of giving into those thoughts, you have to tell yourself that you aren't worthless and that you should love yourself.

    Being "religious" in the Christian sense was never a help for me because they look down upon people who harm themselves. It's a sin, etc. So my relief became a shame for me. When I was an atheist it was kind of like "woohoo, no one cares now!" ... but eventually I learned that I should care because if I don't care about me, who will? Sometimes, you end up in a place where you're the only one you have, and if you hate yourself then everyone hates you because you're everyone, at the time.

    I'm currently unmedicated due to finances, and I find myself struggling with depression a lot. Thankfully, I think I've overcome the whole cutting and self-harm stuff. Though, I'll admit to binge drinking, which is self-harm. And smoking. But those aren't necessarily because I hate myself or because I want to hurt myself. It's mostly because I enjoy doing those things :p



    I'd also like to say something else. If you all have such a problem with sparrow, just ignore him. I'm not taking sides, but I'm getting really irritated that everyone is constantly nagging on about him. It's like when you have that person you hate in real life, but instead of ignoring them, you egg them on or answer them when they egg you on. Besides, I've seen him tell several people to ignore him several times. So, unless you enjoy in some odd way being angered (because we all take some sick pleasure out of the emotion from time to time), just ignore him. There's a nifty little button for that. Clearly sparrow will continue to insult people freely because that's his prerogative. Feel free to fight back, but complaining about it after you already fought with him doesn't do any good. It's like getting arrested for battery and saying "he started it". Doesn't matter that much who started it if both parties were involved. That's all -.-
     
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  7. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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  8. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm surprised I got a positive response from that lol. I <3 you too :D
     
  9. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    It's funny that he would love someone who he considers weak-willed and an annoyance. But I guess it's hard not to love liv.
     
  10. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Well to be fair, I think Ray meant that people who flaunt their depression are annoying. And I can concur with that. There are many people who actually DO do those things just for attention. I had a friend like that and she drove me nuts. I just see no point in posting suicidal facebook statuses so you get your 300 friends that you don't even really talk to to comfort you, etc.
     
  11. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    That's what everyone has been saying, and I don't think that's a valid argument.

    It's like someone saying 'Black people are criminals' and then you rationalizing it by saying 'well I knew a black guy who went to jail, so I get what he's saying.'
     
  12. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    You're equivocating. It's not like that at all. I haven't known just one person like that, I've known many many people like that. Mental illness isn't something you go around shoving in people's faces to get attention. I don't go around telling everyone that I'm bipolar to get their pity. I often only tell people when I am unmedicated and/or unstable to warn them that I might not be myself. Obviously not everyone who cuts or whatever or is depressed or makes a sad fb status is doing this for attention. Just some people. And the people who do that cause a great misunderstanding among those who don't suffer from mental illness. It adds to the stigma.
     
  13. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I think it's exactly like that. It's stereotyping. I fail to see the difference. You're entitled to your opinion, though. I'm just offended. And I'm just as entitled to be that.
     
  14. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, no one is taking your entitlement away. I'm trying to explain myself because I don't want you of all people to be offended by things I say, and I think my words might be betraying me and misrepresenting what I truly mean.
     
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  15. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Kaka - the key difference is more that Liv, me, Ray and a few others don't believe in sympathy for those who use methods like cutting or the like for short term attention seeking when there is no underlaying trauma/mental problem promoting it. Of course continued actions can result in such a situation developing and I will fully admit that telling the difference between those who do suffer and those who do try to abuse it for attention is very very difficult.


    also the rating machine won't let me rep Liv! :(
     
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  16. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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    I did it for ya OR.
     
  17. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    In my defense when I would make those FB statuses I would do it out of rage and spite. Partially because I was feeling that at the time but also because everybody else is doing great things but bragging for attention like they are on a social leash or when people, they are saying what they have going on in their lives and talking about how dandy the world is that they are getting drunk and boning everything. I think of it as a cathartic move on my part to leave something in their eye view that gives them a cold taste of reality that while they feel like they need to brag for attention others suffer and they see your bragging and are insulted by it.

    I've been trying to do it less but people all around me are doing great things while making fools of themselves then pretending that their lives are the norm or that their failures are sad when I've failed ten times worse. In some ways I could be making them happy as they would see that and think "at least I'm not that low". Or perhaps I remind them that the world is beyond their view and they should acknowledge the presence of it.

    It isn't like me to try to manipulate people in such a manner but rest knowing it is one of the many reasons I hate myself.

    I guess I see it like every thing they can brag about is another reason why I'm unaccomplished scum, and to me seeing their updates is like being bludgeoned by some elite force of superior life forms because they still have every right to brag, objectively they are more accomplished productive humans that have more right to live than I.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  18. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Yuan, I love you. Ddddddddddddddddddon't be like that.

    And don't worry liv. Basically no matter what you say you'll still be my /b/ro.
     
  19. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I also think that posting facebook statuses to brag about things like "boning everything" is the same thing as posting statuses about suffering (for attention).

    Personally, I don't think posting your accomplishments or your failures means anything. It makes you look like an attention seeker either way. I've done these things before. But in the past year I've pretty much ceased. I used to post a lot about my struggles with bipolar or about how I got good grades finally or whatever. But what does that mean? I get 10 or less or more "likes"... but they're useless. It goes along with the whole being happy with yourself idea. Why need approval or disapproval from others? Your opinion is the only one that truly matters. If you love yourself in a way that doesn't harm others or bring others down, you don't need anyone's approval but your own. I'm not saying I'm perfect at this or that I'm even good at it. I often write biting facebook statuses and delete them because I don't want to be a hypocrite.

    Also, if you don't mind, Yuan, I'd like to say that I really think you're a good person. I've always enjoyed posting with you on the forum and I enjoy seeing you around (even though I don't ACTUALLY see you). I don't understand why you feel so unaccomplished, why you hate yourself, or why you think that you're scum.

    What do the people that "accomplish" anything truly have? Money? Awards? Sex? None of that means anything. I'm unaccomplished. I barely passed high school, got practically kicked out of my first college, had to do a medical withdrawal last fall, and failed one of my three courses this semester (getting a C in one of the others). I don't have any goals in life. I simply wish to live a simple life. I don't want money. I don't want awards. I don't want sex. I want to be left alone to be who I am and not have anything to do with the people who are "highfalutin" sonofaguns. After living in Chicago-area for 2.5 years and seeing how wishing to be "accomplished" destroys people... I want nothing of it. In the end, when we die, we have nothing. Not even our bones or flesh. Just nothing. So all those millions of dollars I could have will be useless the day I die. I'm all I've got and I'm okay with that.

    I also don't mean to say that I think YOU personally are annoying or weak or anything like that with your facebook statuses. People like you, who I don't honestly feel like you do it for the attention, I only wish I could do something for.

    Also, I think OR summed it up pretty well "the key difference is more that Liv, me, Ray and a few others don't believe in sympathy for those who use methods like cutting or the like for short term attention seeking when there is no underlaying trauma/mental problem promoting it. Of course continued actions can result in such a situation developing and I will fully admit that telling the difference between those who do suffer and those who do try to abuse it for attention is very very difficult"
     
  20. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm glad, but I don't want to hurt my /b/ros.
     
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