Self-harm

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Kakashi, May 23, 2012.

?

Have you ever self-harmed?

  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    42.4%
  2. No, and I have never thought about it

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. No, but I have considered doing it before

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
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  1. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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    I must say I agreed with almost everything you said until the last bit about the wheelchair. Now, it is common knowledge to everyone and their grandmother that there are such things as mental disabilities, but I do not believe that it can make (that is the important word, "make") you kill or cut yourself. The person in the wheelchair does not have any option as to whether they can walk or not, nor does the depressed person have the option to be depressed. However, the physically disabled person does have the choice to take the wheelchair or lay defiantly on the ground and choose not to help themselves, and the depressed one has the choice to take the knife.

    Social pressure is another issue altogether and, those who succumb to that (in major ways like not getting help for mental problems) simply do lack the will power. It's like going back to the pre-teen stage of "But what will my friends think?".

    PS: Jeff you little ****, quit taking cheap shots at me and act like an adult. For God's sake man, you're how old now?

    PPS: Really don't think I'm getting my views across properly, because, after re-reading a few statements of others it reeeeally seems like people think I don't care about people's suffering (?).
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  2. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Raycap... I'm not judging you on the fact you're annoyed at people who do this, and I'm not going to say you're wrong on the whole subject. But I do think that you're not as informed on the subject as you think you are. Like I said in my post I don't condone it. I think self-harming is not the solution and suicide is like Julie said a selfish thing to do, but people who are self-harming due to depression. Well, it's not just for attention. It depends on what you mean about attention. I didn't self-harm myself and scream out 'Hey look at my scars, isn't that cool!', no I needed help, simply because due to my condition I was heavily ignored. The doctors couldn't find anything to do something about my condition and yes I had to learn to live with it. But that's not an easy task and I couldn't do it on my own, thus when Padme came into my life things heavily improved for my condition, my self-esteem. Well basically almost everything improved. And of course there are people who are worse off than me, way worse. But everybody measures pain in a different way. Maybe Kakashi is worse off than me... Maybe not. I don't think you can compare these things, at least not easily. But personally I don't respect or disrespect people who self-harm themselves. I can only say that I've been through it myself and I understand. And I can only hope that they find the same luck as me and snap out of it, because it's wrong. But again that's not as an easy ride and that counts for other things you summed up... The use of drugs, alcohol etc. It's all a way to deal with the pain.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Choice is a - very difficult area to come to debate since the notion of choice itself is a debated topic.

    I think a person who self harms is responsible for the harm that they do to themselves; they are the ones the hold the blade and cut. They are responsible for their actions - even if those actions are the result of choices they make under the influence of mental disorder or/and environmental/social/life stresses upon them.

    This is why I feel that, whilst they are responcible for the harm they do themselves, they are also akin to the person in the wheelchair. Society - and the individuals that make up society - should not frown upon one disabled group over another. The mental disorder needs to be treated (and, like I mentioned above this does not mean just throwing drugs at people) and the situation corrected. To achieve that one cannot be in contempt of it; one must accept, come to understand and then seek to rectify the problem.

    If you hold someone disabled in contempt for their condition its as if you blame them fully for the state that they are in; but also that you hold no value to their recovery - or if not their full recovery (it is not always possible) - at least their recovery to a point where they are able to live as normal a life as possible with their condition.
     
  4. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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    This is a post I was looking for to properly see what people thought my views were. Thanks Anakin, you're a life saver.

    Okay, I will try and take a little time to properly respond to this logically and without any slights.

    "Depression Annoys Me": When I say I am annoyed by depression, I was specifically talking about those without an actual condition. You know the type, the ones that only talk about how much life sucks and how much worse they have it than everyone else. That is what I'm saying annoys me.

    Self-Harm Attention: When I say it is for attention, I am, as you guessed, talking about those who do it for... Well... Attention. Those people that I described earlier that want to take the "People just don't understand me" route. Again, not people with actual conditions.

    People with "Conditions" that use self-harm: Under this topic, I am no less annoyed. As I said in response to OR, these people are not confined to a knife, a bottle of pills, or booze, like someone with disabled legs is to a wheelchair. They are forever attached to depression and that can be properly medicated. My mother is a prime example. She is still, and will be forever, someone who is bi-polar with large issues with depression that come from a chemical imbalance in the brain. However, she treats it with medication and visits with doctors, psychiatrists and the like regularly. She is doing something about it and not wallowing in it, props to anyone who takes that route.

    Anyway, I hope that clears everything up... Any more questions or concerns? I am not being heartless about this stuff, I just treat abuse of one's body with a very intolerable standpoint because you don't only harm yourself, but others. I just can't respect that.

    PS: OR, I hope the above clears some stuff up.
     
  5. Sevi

    Sevi Pocałunek!

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    I've never harmed myself although I have recently been depressed. And since Ive always been a very happy person, depression was a very strange thing for me. I couldnt control my thoughts and anything, even the most innocent thing, made me think that we are all going to die in the end so there is no point. I could see a baby kitten and think taht. And sometimes I was thinking "why am I thinking like that?", and I was scared that I will spend the rest of my life in depression. So I seeked for help and together with my therapist we found the reasons behind it and since then Im much much better.

    The days that I was really bad I couldnt eat. I was hungry, I wanted to eat, I ate but I couldnt swallow. It was very very weird. I couldnt sleep. I cried for no reason and I couldnt even smile. I did all these things without wanted to do them. I was thinking "Why cant I eat? I havent ate all day, this is my favourite food" or " Why am I thinking that?". That was the scariest part. The fact that I understood that something was wrong but couldnt fix it.

    Of course I never thought about commiting suicide moslty because the fear of death was causing most of my depression. Also it didnt last much because I had proffesional help and many caring friends. But if that continued and I didnt have any friends and proffessional help, I dont know how I would feel now. I may even want to kill myself to stop feeling that way or if self harm was making it better I might do it as well.

    Mental illnesses and conditions are very tricky. It could happen to anyone. Its the way you handle it that matters.

    Ray I think you should be a little more understanding and Kak I think you shouldnt take everything so personal. I think we can all agree that self-harming and thoughts about suicide is very alarming situations and people feeling that way need help fast. But it is also something common among people especially now that things are bad everywhere. Here in Greece we have many suicides for financial reasons. How lame is that? Its awful. Its wrong in every way.

    edit: Since it took me ages to write this post, Ray has already made a post explaining things a bit better. So Ray ok! (that rhymes :))
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
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  6. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I somewhat share this line of thinking as well - though I'd say its not annoyance I feel so much as -- eh actually I don't know if I have any firm feelings on the people that do this; esp since its often only very short term. I have more thoughts and feelings on the over-use of mental conditions as explanations for patterns in behaviour in younger generations where I feel there is an overly strong pressure to use conditions to explain differences in people and I feel there are many borderline cases where people are "told" they have mental conditions (and oft put onto treatment) when its something that is just different in them which they might grow out of in time as they mature (as opposed to a real long term mental difference).

    I think the fundamental difference between us and our viewpoint here is that you see a person suffering from a condition and you put it to them to get themselves out of it if the means are within that persons grasp physically and socially. I would argue that many are in these conditions who are not mentally able/willing to get themselves out - thus the desperation toward acts like self harm. What confuses this viewpoint is the fact that many of these people might show very normal outward appearances and actions - that they could seek the help needed at any stage but don't (and oft when pressured are unable to put forth a decent reason for that).

    Personally I feel its something base in the mental structure - consider that many wild animals will refuse to show weakness even if they are in great pains. In fact many times when they do show weakness its because the condition is far too extreme for them to be able to put up a front. I feel that with cases like self harm its a mental conflict between the part of the mind that does not want to show weakness and the part that realises that the situation is more severe and that assistance is needed; without resolution between the two halves the person ends up doing - abnormal activities. *in short they follow that line of "when in stress the mind makes poor choices"(
     
  7. Oddrun

    Oddrun I speak languages.

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    Nope, never did, never considered doing. As every teenager I had my ups and downs but the worst thing that came out of it were very strong somatic stomach aches, occuring every few weeks and leading to me vomiting up to 10 times a day and almost passing out. This stopped after I've managed to boost my self-esteem a bit, became more confident and self-aware.
    Self-harm is a sign that you're not coping with life, emotions, stress, problems. It's no shame to seek help. It's a shame to waste months or years of your young life on struggling with this alone, though.
     
  8. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Thanks for clearing your position up, Ray.

    As for Depression: There are various types of Depression and they're always complicated, always individually different and are never easily coped with.
    Then Depression can vary in strength, length, frequency and the like and dealing with it heavily depends on attachment experiences, self-esteem, the 'personal backup system' (family constellations, friends and the like) and generally the situation in which the depression hits.

    So this is a touchy subject. Not easy. Never the same. So I beg you, especially Kakashi and Ray, get away from the personal level. And, if that is hard, don't check this thread for a few days. Seriously, take a second to breathe and remember that everyone is different.
    Please!
    (and thank you)
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    ^^ Listen to Running - she studies this stuff and all those mental thingies
     
  10. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I kind of just wish I had never made this thread.
     
  11. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Actually - honest answer - I think, considering your viewpoints you've expressed about yourself - I probably too more courage to make the thread than some might appreciate.

    I do honestly hope you will seek some help - I can't force you (no one here can) - all I can say is that you've friends at TFF who would not wish ill of you and would hope that you can show a similar level of courage in facing and indeed tackling the problems that might be holding you back.
     
  12. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well Raycaptain I understand your views and I don't disagree, but again it depends in my opinion. Running wolf summed it up pretty good... How it varies etc. Your mom learned to deal with her condition, and I'm glad for her... I learned to live with mine. I'm not going to make a contest out of it who had it worse, because it's not about that, because like I said everyone measures pain differently and that's no different with depressions. I agree you have your attention-seekers, who use the typical life sucks to get attention. You have attention seekers and they all are handling it wrong, but often that is hard to grasp without help and not everyone can be treated depending on the condition. Not everyone has a very strong willpower and that also depends on environment and other factors. That's just a part of growing up. I said I had a low self-esteem, so that almost goes hand in hand with your willpower, so I can admit that it wasn't very strong, but it's easy to say 'deal with it', but those with low self-esteem, and I don't think you can blame them for that, will have a tougher time to deal with it than people with a stronger self-esteem/willpower. And I needed help to get more willpower and build my self-esteem up so I could eventually deal with my condition, cause it was barely untreatable. But that actually did go slightly hand in hand with my self-esteem so you're stuck in a vicious circle. And it's not easy to get out of there.
     
  13. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    But we are all going to die, and there really isn't a point to it.


    Aren't you one of those God Believers?.. I thought you were a Christian and all that?
    Why didn't you pray to God and have him help you with your depression?
    Or did God lead you to a good therapist and cured your depression through that therapist?



    Why would a young person fear death to the point that it caused clinical depression?
    Sorry, but this sounds a bit religious to me, and isn't belief in a God or some supernatural power a form of self-harm/self-hatred in itself?

    Since self-harm and self-hatred walk hand in hand, I wonder how a person is really delivered from the one condition without first dealing with the fact they are fully responsible for the situation in the first place?
     
  14. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Can you define self-hatred? Because I didn't hate myself or life necessarily. I just hated the conditions I lived in. There's a difference. I really wanted to live like normal people, but it almost seemed impossible and fair enough I still don't live like others do, but you got to learn to live with it. And self-harm is actually only a detail of the solution. One thing you got to understand yourself (speaking in general) is that self-harm solves nothing. And I don't completely disagree self-harm and self-hatred in some situation do go hand-in-hand, but not always..
     
  15. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    Sometimes when I'm distracted at work I bite my lip or my tounge really hard. It usually snaps me out of it.
     
  16. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Those are all good questions... and nor do I live like most other people.
    Like you I've come to terms with certain things and made allowances for them in my life.

    As far as defining 'self-hate'... that will have to wait because I'm off to work right now.
     
  17. RangerKellen

    RangerKellen New Member

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    I have never self-harmed myself and I don't plan to. I like my body how it is!
     
  18. Sevi

    Sevi Pocałunek!

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    I never said I were a Christian, if you ever actually read what other people posted you would have known that. Also I dont like the way you express yourself. I think your reply was full or irony and I dont like that. You may mean no harm and maybe you are just a bored person coming here to troll the others. I dont care. You annoy me. Therefore and because I love this place and I wont let anyone ruin that for me, you, ser, are in my ignore list. Nothing personal. Actually yeah its personal. I do not like you.
     
  19. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Well this thread has derailed....
     
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  20. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, so I hit the nail on the head.
    You are a religious person and asking you why it is that God couldn't cure your depression has made you angry.

    That's cool.
    But don't be overly surprised that if in the future you are visited again by depression, because you haven't actually dealt with the real cause of that depression. You're just kicking the can down the road a little ways.


    And believe me, I am very glad you don't like me.
     
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