Discussion in 'Books' started by Timmybaby17, Jun 10, 2004.
Yeah, Sauron was the servant of Aule, and Trolls were corrupted Ents, aswell. We forgot that one.
Looks like I was wrong.
I think Trolls were mockeries of Ents, seeing how they came from stone, compared to the walking trees. Morgoth corrupts and mocks. Should have put that in earlier.
Alright, I remember this. Sauron, like Gandalf, was a Maia. When everything was still good Melkor was banished from Valinor. Melkor made Sauron go with him into banishment; therefore, turning him to the dark side. Sauron then was given powers by Melkor, the ability to change his body. Melkor also made Sauron the lord of warewolves. If you translate Sauron from Sindarin, I think, it will mean Lord of Warewolves. However, Sauron was not always named Sauron, but I cannot recall his real name.
The Balrogs on the other hand were not Maia. They were creatures like any other, but with the heart of fire.
I hope I helped
One little mistake: The Balrogs were apart of the Maiar. I don't have the time to go and search for a proper quote from the book, so EoA will have to suffice for now.
But there still is no way that Sauron was a Balrog. They were of the same race, yes. But that's as close as it gets.
www.thecouncilofelrond.com, it says that Sauron was a Maiar originally in the service of Aule. Soon he changed alliegances to be with Melkor. From there, he rose to the top of the organization ( heckuvah employee, eh?) and was second only to Morgoth in evil. Melkor taught him to change shape and in the overthrow of Morgoth he was overlooked and allowed to escape...
Saurons real name is Anathar.
Sauron, in theory being a Maiar, is a Balrog, as Balrogs are Maiar. Therefor in thoery, Balrogs are 'Saurons' .
This is obviously not true.
But still, they are one and the same, Balrog is just the name of the fiery embodiments of the evil Maiar, Sauron didn't choose this form, he was above the Balrogs, it is reason to think he could have chosen a differing form to make him look different, therefor above the 'mere' Balrogs.
Also remember that Sauron was never cealed to one form untill (I beleive) the late second age, after the forging of the one ring. If he would ever have wanted to, I think he could in a way 'morph' into a Balrog, however, he could be kept to that form... Of course, I'm not Tolkein, so I'll never know for sure
In Conclusion, it is my belief, that although Sauron could be a Balrog (but not one), Balrogs could not be a 'Sauron', its abit confusing, but I'm sure you'll catch my drift, therefore he is not one in practical, but the point I'm trying to get at is theory.
Sauron was allways second in command to Melkor. Balrogs are a lesser form of Maiar and would only be in command of Melkors armies, this could be because of their brute force and scary looks. And I think Tolkien stated more than once; that to have power, you should have the wits and good looks or be the strongest person in arms ( biggest army). Sauron did not have an army, Melkor did, until he made the ring, but he did have good looks and he was very clever.
Sauron originated as a spirit called a Maia. He was at first one of the most powerful servants of Aulë the Smith, one of the Valar or ruling powers of the world.
He was soon converted (subverted) by Melkor (later Morgoth) an evil Vala, and thereafter served Morgoth faithfully, even in later days after Morgoth was defeated and cast outside the confines of the world.
Morgoth/Melkor was the fallen Valar, Sauron was a Maia of Aule who brought dwarves into the world and was a Craftsman, The wizards arn't Maia, They are Istari who were sent by the remaining Valar to advise the free peoples, When Morgoth/Melkor corrupted Sauron he made him lord of werewolves and lord of the origional Minas Tirith
or at least this is what I understood...The Istari thing is in a bestiary of tolkien I've got but it doesn't explain where a balrog comes from
I think that they were made before elves, but Illuvitar made them stay asleep until the "Firstborn" came into being. They were made by Aule, but Illuvitar give them life.
Wrong: Aule created the dwarves, though Eru gave them life.
He was of Aule, not Ulmo. Ulmo was over the sea, so the sea oriented people were under him. Osse (a Maiar) and Cirdan the shipwright (an elf) were some of the most famous ones.
Naaa, least aways, I don't thinks. Sauron the goon was a mia, and a heavyweight one among others, but those nasty little buggers, the Balrogs, aren't. They were far to corrupted. Once, in a faraway time, yea they were mia, but then they flocked like a pack o'wolves over to the M'sters banner, where the M corrupted those little buggers to the point they had lost them powers that identified them as mia.
It's Maia, not Mia.
Maia or Mia is not important
only idea is important !
Actually, the Istari are Maia, sent in the form of old men. Sauron was also a Maia, albeit a very powerful one.
Yep, Sen's correct. They were Olorin (Gandalf), Aiwendil (Radagast), Curunír (Saruman), Alatar, and Pallando. If you want the whole tale of how the Valar chose them, it's written in Unfinished Tales.
Of course I"m correct
Separate names with a comma.