Sam and the Ring

Discussion in 'Books' started by Mac, Oct 7, 2003.

  1. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    This is a theory and it may have loopholes but here it is... who's to say Sauron didn't sense Sam when he put the ring on? What's Sauron going to do? His Ringwraiths are out at the Pellenor, and by the time he can get anyone else out there Sam and Frodo are gone and he finds nothing but lots of dead Orcs. Then before he can scour his land he's interrupted by some rude guests on his doorstep. Once again just a theory...
     
  2. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    remember at amon hen when frodo put it one for i what i think was the third time, the eye took about 5 min before he was in the direction of frodo. Sam who only put the ring on once and was more pure in heart only had it on for about 7 min, the only ything that saurong knew was that the ring had been put on.

    -dt
     
  3. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I'm pretty sure that it says in the book the Cirith Ungol was not actually in Mordor, thus Sauron could not feel the ring as strongly. Still sense it but perhaps he couldn't pin point it's location.

    Mount Doom is definately in Mordor and practialy in Sauron's back yard.
     
  4. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Did it mention when Sam took it off? I just thought we saw him slam against the shut gate, and then next time we see him it's off, I don't remember exactly....
     
  5. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    6,311
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    Thank you turumbar that is exactly the part I was talking about!
     
  6. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    well we really didn't "see" him slam against the gate. ;)

    -dt
     
  7. Cromat

    Cromat Ash nazg durbatuluk

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Here's another thing to note: How come Sauron didn't notice Bilbo who wore the Ring
    many times, and only discovered that the Ring was found long after?

    BTW, is the Eye of Sauron an illusion or feeling you feel when you wear the Ring or is it a real thing similiar to the thing you see in the films?
     
  8. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    I always go the impression it was the real deal.....

    As for Bilbo, I think it was because Sauron was not in full power, and Bilbo was very far away in the Shire...
     
  9. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    I think the Shire was far out of Sauron's reach, certainly in those days. Barad-Dûr, the symbol of the return of his power, was rebuilt around the same time as Bilbo passed on the ring to Frodo. Only when Barad-Dûr was rebuilt, could he look abroad and steadily expand his view. The Shire was as far as it could get.
     
  10. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    I agree with EBM, Sam himself says that once he crossed into mordor that to wear the ring would bring Sauron's attention.
     
  11. LadyLaurelin

    LadyLaurelin Crazy 88 Member (#19)

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    ??? Lost
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Here's a strange though that's prabably completely wrong, but here it goes:
    Do u think it may have anything to do with who's more in control (the reing or the bearer)? I mean, in the film, the ring seems to have control of frodo when he does and doesn't wear the ring (most obviously in bree) where Sam wanted to wear the ring, and not the other way around. Does this kind of make sense? I think it's also the bearer's intentions in wearing the ring, as many people have said before, but it could be also who is in control of wehy it's being worn and such. IDK, i'll look in the books for anything to support my theory, but I've only got some film stuff at this point (which isn't nearly as convincing as book quotes)
     
  12. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    I think proximity, circumstance, race, "alignment", willpower and duration are all factors. The main points of measure are:

    1) Frodo and Sam used the ring several times but were not seen by Sauron(although he may have attracted attention (Amon Hen is the best example of that)

    2) the exeptions to #1 are when the Seat of Amon Sul amplify his sight, and when he claims the ring in Doom.

    3) Frodo is noticed by Ringwraiths that are close by when he wears the ring in Bree ( although thay may be attracted by the lure of the ring rather than it's power)

    4) When Aragorn challenges Sauron and seems to claim the ring, Sauron has no idea he's been tricked until Frodo claims the ring.

    5) Gollum and Bilbo wore the ring right under the nose of Sauron, when Sauron was posing as the necromancer in Mirkwood.

    Assuming you discount # 5 because Sauron was not at his full power, there isn't enough to say for sure. I do think that since Sauron wasnt at full power, distance and resistance to the ring would be important. If "Claiming" is a different use of the ring, it doesnt seem to be important because of # 4. If Sauron could tell Aragorn wasnt wearing the ring, he would wonder why Aragorn hadn't tried to master the ring before the battle.

    Please forgive my dry analysis, I was a math major
     
  13. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    None yo' damn business
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    If you gentlemen can remember, Cirith Ungol and Shelob's Lair are in the mountains that border Mordor. I remember reading somewhere that Sauron put up Shadows all around Mordor for his own defence. These shadows blocked his view of the Ring. Whenever Frodo put the Ring on, he was out in the open. But Sam had the Ring on in the cover of shadow, and neither Sauron nor the Wraiths could therefore see him.
     
  14. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    That makes sense. Hadnt though of that