Saddest/Least Favorite Moments

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Liadan, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. Kakashi17

    Kakashi17 New Member

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    Appaliq- Charlamenge can't be compaired to Robert, Charlamenge beats Robert in everything hands down. But the kings before him especially the Merovingian* kings(I think) their format for government is what I think GRRM based ASoIaF's government in Westrose even down to having a Hand rule for him. Basically my whole argument is that Robert was not a bad king. As a person Robert had his ups and downs with his peak being his rebellion and his downfall the hate of the Targyrans. His hate twards the targyrans is the same as most of our hate of the Freys, If you look at the thread Red Wedding Revenge, most people are pretty heartless twards the Frey's, and that is the same kind of mindset Robert had. But I still think that he was a Badass durring the war and I liked him alot. He was built for Fighting Drinking and Wenching which combined make a badass, but without the fighting it is just sad. Lets face it Robert wasn't a thinker he really should have been born a mercenary not a king.

    Lyannawolfblood- What could Robert have done to help the watch beyond voulenteering himself, Its not like he can swear in his army to the watch. There decline is due more to the mindset of the people, no one is willing to give up everything to protect the realm from ghosts, lets face it they have been stopping wildings for 1000 years and walking on the wall, so the decline was more due to the lack of need for the wall then who is ruleing the realm. And as for going to fight at the wall I wholeheartedly beleive that robert would have gone. You seem to suggest that he would not go because he was afraid of fighting the others but the reality is they would have asked him to come to defend against the united wilding and because he could kill the wildings with his hammer he would have answered the call. And as for Rhegars kids Robert did not kill them the Mountian did. The Martells never blaimed Robert for killing the kids so I dont think we should, while there is no arguing that he was completely callus twards their deaths he didn't order them killed. And his brothers never wanted him dead Renly worked to keep him alive and happy and Stannis was two rigid to even think about taking from his ELDER brother.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lyanna, as always, summed up about half of my argument. :p

    Kakashi, I do realize that technically, the money is his - but as a "good" king, he should have used that money for his realm rather than squandering it on personal frivolities. Just because he has the right to do something does not make it "right" either.

    Also, it has been argued that ASoIaF was based on the War of the Roses in England, not after medieval France. :)
     
  3. Kakashi17

    Kakashi17 New Member

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    Liadan- The principals remain the same. And I think that the events probibly were based off of War of the Roses but at the same time the position of the Hand is definately from the French Merovingian kings, England never had a postion like that , that I know of. (I have discussed the exstencivly with my history teachers who all read ASoIaF) Also, its not out of the question that it is a blend of the two.
    And as for being a "good" king that is just what I think, I liked the character of Robert alot, more of what he was not what we saw. And I do not think he really did anything wrong, and you can of course dissagree with my opinion but in the end there is no real right answer
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2006
  4. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    *shrug* 's what I feel as well - that everyone's opinion is their own choice. I just personally happen to despise the man.
     
  5. Arianne

    Arianne New Member

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    Saddest moment?
    Well... The Redd Wedding, of course.
    And Red Vipers death. :(
     
  6. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Well, although it's true, as you both said, that it's basically a matter of opinion as to whether you like the guy, I do have to argue a point or two :).

    He's the king, he could send all criminals caught, promote it as a honourable trade for younger sons and among the common people, even go and visit the Wall itself and make it very clear that the king would be very grateful to any families sending members to the Wall, etc. I'm not saying he could have stopped the decline, but he never tried to and that's what annoys me.

    We're talking about an overweight, gluttonous guy who's developed a fondness for soft living. I hardly think he'd live up to your heroic description anymore. This is definitely a matter of opinion, we aren't given definite information, but I don't agree.

    Yes, the Mountain killed them, and Robert didn't order it. He also never condemned the killing, or tried to find those responsible. He just accepted that they needed to die and didn't go looking for inconvenient truths, which to me is precisely why he's a weak character and an unfit king.

    As for Stannis and Renly, while Stannis wouldn't have tried to take Robert's throne that doesn't necessarily make him the loyal ally who would die for Robert you make him out to be. Once he found out that 'Robert's' children weren't Robert's he just got out of the way and didn't tell Robert as a loyal ally would undoubtedly have done. I have no clue about your assertation that Renly worked to keep him alive and happy, I just don't see that.
     
  7. Kakashi17

    Kakashi17 New Member

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    Stannis did his duty. And in his mind that means being loyal to Robert in his own way, knowing that if he went to Robert directly his accusations Robert would never beleive him and probibly make things more strained than they already were so he went to the next best person Jon Arryn. And Renly was working hard to get rid of the biggest threat to Robert- Cercei in AGOT. He talks with Ed and trys to get him to help him with his plan to get the Tyrell girl to marry Robert.

    And as for the kids, Tywin put him in a position where any action he took would be the wrong one. Think about what repercussions there would be with the Lannisters if he killed the Mountian and that other guy?

    And as for sending crimanals to the Wall we all saw what happens when you do that. And I am sticking with my argument earlier, the wall is declining because the threats that it is supposed to be proctecting the realm from haven't been seen for thousands of years. Lets face it the wall was not built to keep wildings out it was built to protect them from the others. It is a decline that no one could have stopped and nobody can be soley be accused of not doing enough.

    P.S. If any of you are planning on seeing the Eragon move DO NOT GO THE MOVIE IS AWFUL!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2006
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  8. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    We're never going to agree, are we? ;)

    I'm not so sure about Renly trying to get rid of Cersei. Yes, he did talk to Ned about Margaery, but we never saw anything about a vital part of that - the actual getting rid of Cersei part - until after Robert died. As for Stannis, you have a point, but I hardly think he would have gone back to Dragonstone and stayed there the entire book of AGOT if he was trying to protect Robert, especially after Jon died so suddenly.

    As for the Mountain, personally I think Tywin would have been perfectly willing to sacrifice him to prove his 'loyalty' to Robert. Remember, at this point the Mountain wasn't Tywin's chief hellraiser, he was just some kid with abnormal strength and cruelty. I don't think Tywin would have had many sleepless nights over sacrificing him.

    I didn't say Robert was solely responsible for not doing enough, or that the decline was his fault. All I'm saying is that he didn't do what he could have done.

    As for Eragon, thanks for the advice :).
     
  9. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lol, Lyanna's opinions on ASoIaF matters seem to coincide with mine a lot. :p
     
  10. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Christmas Yoda! :eek: I love that set! I need to bug Nik to get mine from last year!

    And no, I have nothing to add to the real topic. :p
     
  11. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Haha, it doesn't matter - it's the ASoIaF section. :p We're always spamming anyhow. :D

    And yeah, I love this set myself. :D My friends have frequently commented that they just need to add some blue overtones to make me look like Yoda - I am, after all, short and "yellow". :p
     
  12. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    That just so wrong! LOL
     
  13. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Apparently, there's only a few things they can make fun of me for - how I'm 1) Asian, 2) can't drive (haven't got a license, although that's due in part to the fact that I believe Asian girls shouldn't be allowed to drive :p) 3) short, and 4) frequently mispronounce words. :p So... they make Asian comments whenever they can. :p
     
  14. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    That's a long list! LMAO :p

    Why do you think Asian girls shouldn't drive? :confused:
     
  15. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Trust me, I can make fun of them more often than they can make fun of me. ;)

    And have you ever SEEN Asians drive? Particularly Asian girls? Either they drive about 10 miles under the speed limit, or do the:

    "Chris! Chris, I can't see!"
    *crashes into a telephone pole*

    And for the record, that actually happened to the older sister of one of my brother's Korean friends. >.>
     
  16. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    LMAO, that reminds me. In HS, my close friend was Cambodian, and only 4'10. She had to keep pillows or a phone book in the car to sit on to drive. Otherwise she couldn't see over the dashboard! She was a good driver though, not like your brother's friend's sister. :p

    We looked funny walking down the hall, she only came up to my shoulder, I'm a full foot taller than her. Hehe, good times. :p
     
  17. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    >.> That makes you 11 inches taller than me. <.<
     
  18. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    could you please turn that to centimeters? i don't really understand how tall was that little cambodian, or how tall are you two... inches and foots (or is it feet here also?) are all greek to me.

    besides, i'm 181 cm. what ever that might be to you. i think it's around six foots (feet?) and six inches. but i'm not really sure.

    post scriptum.
    liadan, you're asian? where from?
    i always thought you were english. but you know, that true, hard english. don't really know why.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2006
  19. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I'm under 150 cm - more like 148. :) The Cambodian would be around 145ish. (Just for future reference, one inch = 2.54 cm, and twelve inches = 1ft.) And yes, 180 is around 6 feet.

    And I am in no way English. :D I'm a Japanese-American girl. :p
     
  20. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    im sorry, but thats just plain funny ;)
     
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