Rumors of what to expect in ROTK EE DVD Version **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Huskylord, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    PJ left out the Scouring because it was a "screenwriter's nightmare". If you look at the movie, you have rising action, rising action, climax, then gradual fallign action. But if the Scouring was in, it would be rising action, rising action, climax, falling action, rising action, falling action.
     
  2. Aenónar

    Aenónar Elf of Arda Tauréndor

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    The death of saruman / Wormtounge as I think it will be: Saruman gets pushed off the roof of orthanc and lands on the wheel thingy, then Legolas picks Wormtounge off with an arrow...

    that's what I made up with that link observer posted :)
     
  3. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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  4. Aenónar

    Aenónar Elf of Arda Tauréndor

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  5. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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    Orcs = funny faces. I reaally hope he sshot it becaause it wasa great in the book.

    -dt
     
  6. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    That's great! I was a bit surprised NOT to see it...but I guess PJ just wanted to get the action moving/keep it moving...and not having Frodo & Sam caught again so soon after escaping helps that desire to fruition.
     
  7. Cjg

    Cjg New Member

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    The Scouring of the Shire was in the Fellowship. Remember when Frodo looked into Galadriel's mirror. He saw the shire being burned and Sam in chains. So the Scouring was filmed they just didn't put the footage in the ROTK.
     
  8. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

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    Dude they never intended those scenes to be used in ROTK, that was probably all that they filmed of those scenes. They probably didn't film a whole sequence.
     
  9. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Um....that wasn't the "Scourging of the Shire"...

    If you read the book, Frodo saw the same thing in Galadriel's mirror in FOTR, yet in ROTK the actual scourging of the shire occured.
     
  10. Cjg

    Cjg New Member

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    I know the Scouring of the Shire was in the Return of the King book. In the Fellowship movie, the scenes Frodo see in the mirror are supposed to be from the the Scouring. In the Fellowship book, Frodo doesn't see that stuff. The only the similar betwenn the book and the movie is Frodo seeing the Eye of Sauron. The scenes Frodo sees in the mirror in the movie are more of an embelishment of what Sam saw in the mirror in the book.
     
  11. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Right...I don't think it's the same thing though. What Sam saw was not the actual scouring of the shire. It was what may happen if they fail...but that's just my opinion.
     
  12. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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    yea Saam was looking throughh the mirror. I bet PJ was just to tired and the movie waas all ready 3 1/2 hours loong. simple

    -dt
     
  13. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Actually, PJ said he never liked the Scouring of the Shire scene in the book, so it was never filmed, and we wouldn't see it on the DVD.
     
  14. Cjg

    Cjg New Member

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    Yeah that's right. PJ didn't like the Scouring so he totally rewrote Saruman's death scene. Instead of Saruman dying at Bag End he dies at Orthanc. And...Wormtonge is killed by Legolas not hobbits.

    I don't understand why he didn't like it. It shows how weak and pathetic Saruman was. He had an obsession for power and he was defeated at his tower. So the only thing he could do was pick on the halflings. The hobbits were weak and ill-prepared. The shire was easy pickings. Then at the end when Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin return they use what they learned in their travels to gather an army and overthrow Saruman.

    Maybe I do understand......I think the Scouring made Treebeard, Gandalf, and Frodo look stupid and ignorant. All of them decided to let Saruman live, which was a mistake. Saruman took advantage of their mercy. Because of Treebeard and Gandalf, the Shire was ruined. Maybe PJ didn't want to ruin thier hero image.
     
  15. Aragorn Elessar

    Aragorn Elessar Envinyatar

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    While I agree that the chapter in the book was really cool, especially seeing how the four Travellers have changed and grown, and how cool they sounded in the book, being knights of Gondor and Rohan and all, with their mails and swords and chains, it's just not possible to put that in the movies, IMHO.

    I wouldn't know exactly why PJ didn't like the scene, but one of the reasons, him being a film maker, would be that that chapter is just absolutely anticlimatic. It just simply wouldn't work in a movie, no matter how long the movie is.

    See, not only would we have another battle after the "climatic" battle in front of the Black Gate and the going ons in the Crack of Doom, and the returning to Gondor and the crowning of Aragorn and the marriage (maybe we'll see that in the EE, or maybe not) and the returning to Rivendell for Bilbo (I dont' think we'll see that), and on the way the company encountering Saruman --- we'll then have to get back to Bree and then build up, from the bottom up, all the tension and suspicion and the "I have a bad feeling about this" atmosphere. Then the Travellers have to go back to the Shire, deal with all the goons and find out about the Cheif and Sharkey, and gather the hobbit troops (which made Merry and Pippin really cool), and have another battle, and win that, and then get back to Bag End, and then there they find out/confirm that it really was Saruman, and then they need to have a conversation (not even a little fight), and have Frodo tell Saruman off, and have Frodo's mercy provoke Wormtongue into attacking Saruman, and then get shot while the runs...

    That's A LOT of build up for a not very exciting and climatic fight after the big and all important battle -- and war, the one that we've been getting to and talked about and dreaded for all the past two and a half movies, had already been won.

    Now, mind you, I think that chapter was great and I really like it in the book, it shows the growth of the four travellers and their true character after the events they've been through, and it just makes them so dang cool -- they've become the tall and wise and purposeful warriers that they've admired since when their journeys just began. It works fine in the book, and round up the story nicely going back to the Shire. But it won't work for the films. It just wouldn't translate well at all to the movie, the pacing will be all messed up, and it will just feel like dragging an already ending story too long, especially for the people who are not as enthusiastic about this story as those of us here (if you've watched ROTK enough times like me, you'll have seen enough people leaving before the end of the movie and have heard a lot of people saying that the ending of the movie was too long, yes, I know, they don't get it, but it tells you something about how the general public expect from a movie these days).

    So, to put it in short, I think even if PJ had actually liked the chapter, he'd have had a hard time cramping that into the end of the movie, and at least wouldn't have appeared in the theatrical version anyway. And, of course, afterall, this was called The Return of the King, even Frodo uses that title in the Red Book (but of course, Tolkien himself didn't really like that title). So, to conclude, it just wouldn't work.
     
  16. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Well...there's something to be said for that, I suppose. I mean, we we would have all liked to have seen Frodo shove Sting right through Sauruman's gullet, in a way...but consider this:

    Everybody wanted Gollum dead. Bilbo wanted him dead, yet spared him. Frodo wanted him dead yet spared him. If I remember correctly from the books, the Elves of Mirkwood captured him at one point, and spared him. They all took pity on him. It proved to be the best thing in the end, because through Gollum the Ring's power was ended.

    And let's not forget the conversation that Gandalf and Frodo had. I'll try to quote from memory...

    "Many that die deserve to live. And many that live deserve to die. Can you give it to them ? Then do not be so quick to deal out death in judgement. For even the wisest cannot see all ends."

    This held true for someone so simply complex as Gollum, and must therefore hold true for all...especially someone as importantly powerful as Sauruman.


    I think this was a bright bit of insight. While I truely loved the chapter of the book concerning the scouring, as do most fans of the books, it wouldn't have played out well for the movie-going public at large, probably. However, it's too bad PJ didn't like it at all...at least we could have seen it in DVD format if he'd at least filmed it. Oh well. Good insight, good comments.
     
  17. Cjg

    Cjg New Member

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    I don't have enough time or money to waste seeing a movie over and over in the theaters. At almost $10 a pop, I'm just gona see it once and then wait for the DVD.

    I don't disagree that the Scouring should have been left out of the original cut. I just wanted to see it in the extended DVD.

    Any chapter of the book could have been put in the movie if the director was talented enough. With the proper editing and screenplay the scouring could have turned into one last hoorah for the hobbits from the Shire. But time and money is always an issue with making movies.

    After any war is over there will still be little battles going on. Take Iraq for example, the U.S. went in and took down Sadaam but stil we're over there fighting and losing soldiers. Just because the main bad guy is taken down doesn't mean that his followers won't resist.

    As for Gollum, in my opinion the only reason he got any mercy was because Gandalf didn't see him as a threat and Frodo needed Gollum to lead him through Mordor. Gollum killed only one person. Saruman, on the other hand, was a threat because he put together an army that killed many people.
     
  18. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Is the supertrailer that they mention in the extras the same one you get on the Soundtrack? I would guess so...but...I don't know if that was ever marketed as a "Supertrailer".
     
  19. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    I don't disagree that the Scouring should have been left out of the original cut.

    I would want the scouring filmed alongside the hobbit as an addendum for the 2011 10 year anniversary 15 disc Ultra Full Length Special Edition with the remaining timeline from LOTR wrapped up. It aint gonna happen but thats my wish.
     
  20. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Wow...and I thought I was the king of wishful thinking. <hands over his crown>

    Lovely idea though.
     
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