Respect. Why should it be arbitrarily given to people?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by ScreenXSurfer, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Give me a reason why. I've asked you three times now.

    I didn't put any words in your mouth, you just don't understand English very well.

    Unlike you, just because I don't respect an opinion it does not follow that I don't respect (and want to restrict) their freedom.

    You didn't answer my question. You just did a smoke and mirrors trick to try to avoid answering it.

    Respecting the right to an opinion is different than respecting an opinion.

    Now answer the question.

    So? Give me an answer.

    Their opinion about their faiths is greater than mine and more valuable than mine. They have spent years of their lives in the study of their faith whereas I haven't.

    True.

    No, you're just a ****ing idiot who can't read. I never said anything like that, you're just making a fake strawman of my post to knock over. How can I debate a person in English who doesn't understand it?

    That the person with the masters degree in a field of study should value other people's opinion who have no degree in the same field of study? No, why should he/she?

    Tolerance, literally, is useless. There has to be actions that a person is intolerant. I'm intolerant of causing harm and repressing rights. You apparently respect and tolerate the idea that rights should be suppressed and one group to dictate the will of another group. I am intolerant of the idea itself. I am tolerant of the right to say it.

    As a rule of thumb, the educated have a more rational opinion than the uneducated. That said, the uneducated can come up with brilliant ideas. Ideas should be judged on their own merit, but if somebody is not a student in the field in discussion, the person who is more educated in that field generally has the better opinion.

    No, every opinion does not have the same value. A person who has

    If you were serious, I would accept your opinion over the random person off the street.

    But you know more of it than those who don't study it. How is this up to debate?

    Instead of attacking me, you attacking a strawman hanging on a post for an easier fight. WHen you defeat the strawman, you think you've defeated me.

    Basically you're arguing with something that I didn't say, and then you think you defeated me by defeating the argument I didn't make.

    Why? What about being human entitles you to being honored? I only honor actions that a person makes. If you act as a good person should act, I will respect you. If you act as an evil person acts, I will disrespect you. If I don't know you, I have no reason to respect or disrespect you.

    Look up what the slippery slope fallacy is. The fact that you're using it means I don't even have to bother debating this point because it's illogical.

    Why is respect and politeness mutually inclusive? You can have on without the other. Respect, to me, means to honor or praise a quality in something or someone. I have no respect for the idea that gays should be arrested. There is nothing in that opinion that I think needs to be honored. Can I be polite to somebody I don't respect? All the time.

    Agreed.

    What an excuse. You admit to not taking my post for what it is and "read between the lines" adds up to putting words in my mouth.

    That is a quality I don't respect btw.


    I'll respond to the rest when I get home from work.
     
  2. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Everyone deserves a certain degree of respect. There is no reason, it's just an unalienable right. Simple as that.
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    The problem with people is that they all think they are right. Over time, they develop a view of the world they deem correct, based on the environment they live in, the education they enjoy, the interests they take and the way they have been brought up. All very valid.

    The fact that, each person in his own right believe, for the best of their knowledge and power, they are right demands equal respect from one person to another.

    The truth is, of course, that we are probably all wrong - but that hardly matters, except maybe for the fact that I, too, must be wrong on most accounts.
     
  4. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Thank you.
     
  5. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Why is it a right? Why are people entitled to my respect?


    That's not a reason as to why I should respect a person. That's just a paragraph in humility.


    No it doesn't. The opinion on a math problem from somebody with a masters degree in mathematics who majored in information theory is much greater than the opinion of somebody who escaped highschool with basic algebra under their belt.

    What you don't understand is that opinions are just information. Some information is more valuable than others.

    Why are you mentioning this?

    Well I don't respect your ill-defined value system anyway so why do I care what you would and wouldn't do? :p

    It proves that one person is smarter than the other.

    Then your school system just sucks if you can't teach people stuff in four ****ing years. :p

    How about you stop reading between the lines since you're not a native speaker?

    You must not know what respect means because respect means to honor.

    I didn't say he was evil, did I?

    I'm not Hitler, jerkwad.

    As for why your logical fallacy is illogical:

    Description of Slippery Slope

    The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

    Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
    Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

    Examples of Slippery Slope

    "We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they'll be charging $40,000 a semester!"
    "The US shouldn't get involved militarily in other countries. Once the government sends in a few troops, it will then send in thousands to die."
    "You can never give anyone a break. If you do, they'll walk all over you."
    "We've got to stop them from banning pornography. Once they start banning one form of literature, they will never stop. Next thing you know, they will be burning all the books!"

    -www.nizkor.com




    That's your problem.

    You just suck at reading between the lines. :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  6. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    That depends. You're talking more of an opinion based on facts. You can't change the truth based on facts. However an opinion on morals for example is different. We all grow up differently and while I might respect one more than the other, I do respect everyone to a certain degree. I guess it would sound weird if I say that because out of principle I do think should you give every opinion the same value. This is something I feel a little stuck at, between agreeing and respecting. Maybe I am a hypocrite that I don't respect some opinions like I do others as Tur says, but then again I would be a liar if I said I did. But still it is important for me to respect them to a certain degree, otherwise I think I would be plain arrogant if I didn't.

    Again depends on the context of the opinion.


    No, I think Tur made it clear there is a difference in knowledge and wisdom.


    Let's all drop the insults. I'm sure RW didn't mean it seriously.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    What's going on here?
     
  8. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    Answering the thread title, respect shouldn't be given arbitrarily. Respect should be given objectively in accordance with standards of knowledge and/or intelligence and/or willingness to learn. This, obviously, brings problems.

    Humans aren't objective beings, however rational they want to be, which means you may feel tempted to respect more those who think more alike you.
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    touché

    Check the Christianity forum, Foin. Again sorry you got sucked into this. It wasn't intentional, at least not by me.
     
  10. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Since I'm clearly not helping in keeping SXS calm, (and since I seem to suck at understanding what he says or wants to say) I guess I should simply stay out of this.

    Have fun ^^
     
  11. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Yeah. I understand that we don't agree on that account.

    I'm with RW :)
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Don't worry I thought it had something to do with that thread.

    By the way I want to make a complaint:

    TURAMBAR PLAYS DUMB AND WILL NOT REPLY TO QUESTIONS EITHER IN PRIVATE OR ON FORUM THREADS NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I'VE ASKED HIM.

    And I ask again: Mr.Turambar,you are so smart as to sit down and debate for hours and hours and will not reply to simple questions such as "Do you have MSN or Facebook?"

    You could have just given me an answer man,but noooo I had to ask again and again and you played dumb.And you also played dumb when you had won that old football bet and I had to post a pic saying "I'm emo because I lost a bet to Turambar".Only azuren liked that.
    But you Mr.Turambar...why did you ignore all that?

    So speaking about respect and seeing all this and heck yes I know what most of you think about me,but I have to say that my respect for Turambar is being lost more and more.

    There.
     
  13. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I think everyone's entitled to be treated respectfully (courteously). I don't agree that everyone deserves respect or to be held in esteem, that's earned not a given. Similalry the right to express a different viewpoint can be respected, but not necessarily the view expressed or the individual expressing it.
     
  14. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    *ignores mountains of quotes and jibes and text and stuffs*

    Its simples - if you are living within a community respect has to be accorded to others otherwise all you'll have is chaos (or a military state system to keep everyone in line). So you've got to respect others and they respect you otherwise you'll just end up fighting - and when that happens the community goes nowhere and that tends to end up with either revolution or your neighbours coming over and taking over.

    If Ali G can work it out so can you
    (warning Ali G level humour present)
     
  15. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    I know. Some people apparently don't discriminate between opinions. :p

    Actuall there are more factors than just that. How well is it explained, how well it answers the question, and how cogent it is. These things, and likely others I didn't think of, make some information more valuable than others. If your opinion lacks the necessary information, it's less valuable than those that do.



    Being wise isn't a necessary condition for being smart or having a valuable opinion. I could argue it's irrelevant in all but a few academic fields.

    Well she never apologized for it and refuses to do so so I'll never know. :mad:


    Pussies :p
    Hahah, I actually agree with your Foinikas. ;)


    ****ING AMEN!

    No you won't. Even now people have very little respect for one another and we function pretty well. For a society to function all you have to do is respect the social contract.
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I have a social contract?
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Why don't you reply Turambar?Why don't you reply?Go on,tell me.Give me an answer.Tell me why don't you reply!
     
  18. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    If you live according to society you're operating under the social contract.
     
  19. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    The social contract is the idea that, to ascend from the state of nature, people decide to cooperate and obey a social contract. The contract basically holds that people benefit from cooperation and, in return, respect each others, rights, liberties and, John Locke would add, property. The philosophy is widely appreciated in the US, probably because libertarian hero John Locke was of the contractianst school.

    The theory is not exactly correct since the state of nature is not in the nature of humans, which is a social animal. The social contract is a contract society has with itself. Taking part of society implies consent to the contract. It more or less means that you have to respect each other. Society will take care of those who break this contract.

    Here is a 101 on Locke and the social contract.
     
  20. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    So I must respect society but not the people that make up the society that I respect?
     
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