Religions co-existing

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Dreamscape, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Interestingly several of the forums I'm on specifically ban religious and political discussion. This raises an interesting question, the thread asks if religions can co-exist; if we see religion (at its worst) as just another form of control then we should really be asking can different politicians and political views/systems co-exist in peace?
     
  2. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    There are lots of touchy subjects out there, but I don't believe they should be banned. But then there's expected to be disputes and arguments. Religion and political views are sensitive stuff for people that really have a strong opinion or feelings about it.

    And can different political views and politicians co-exist in peace? Well most of the time. Just like most religions can. But then there are always that moment where they crash together and start fighting. Oh the little idiotic kiddy fights our politicians have had.. It's actually even funny.
    But in the end we are all of one "race" so to speak. We are all human, and why shouldnt we be able to co-exist no matter of our beliefs and opinions. As long as you respect other people, there shouldn't be a problem.
     
  3. Joline3

    Joline3 New Member

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    As a newbie reading this thread was extremely fascinating. The question seemed to be quite innocent, but then things escalated quite quickly... I hope I can still post my opinion without creating a fight xD
    I agree Emelie that as long as we respect each other, there shouldn't be any problem. I myself am agnostic, but had a lot to do with religion in my childhood. Throughout my life I met people who despise religion and those who can't live without it, and came to a conclusion that is obvious to everyone. We are all humans, yet we are all different and we need different things. Ultimately though we all in some way want to be happy. I personally will always respect anyone who can find happiness in religion, science or something else, while not imposing their beliefs on others. This way any conflict can be averted :D
     
  4. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    And thank you for bringing it up, Dreamscape :)

    You know, I've been part of this crazy place for the best part of 10 years. I, too, was pretty adamant about religion once. I found a remedy, though. Talking. Just taking it up against people who don't agree. And whilst, in all eloquence, you try to persuade whoever it is you try to persuade, there is no avoiding taking note of where someone else is coming from. I now believe in the relativity of things. People can truly believe they grasp the truth, and often for good reason. People with opposing views can truly believe they grasp the truth, and often for good reason.

    I've also seen a fair few pass through this place. All with the heart on their tongues, so to say. And, more often than not, people do eventually catch up with the fact that people who don't agree are essentially not stupid or similar. Just differently disposed. Anakin, I think, shows himself a splendid example - but, thankfully, he is by far not alone in the fact.

    When people do state they feel people who disagree are stupid, I must say there's something else at hand. Truly listening and understanding how someone arrives at a conclusion takes time and practice and patience. And however stupid the premise might look, there's a reward in working it out. And here's a tip. If your conclusion is: this person must be stupid/ignorant/inferior, then 10 to 1 odds say you've got it wrong.



    This goes partly to show why coexistence might be somewhat cumbersome for religions. The other thing is: once established, people find it very hard to doubt their own point of view. Once a working model of someone's universe has formed, it is very hard to intrude on that perceived reality, whatever it is. Allowing to exist in close proximity a conflicting reality might spark, I can fully understand that. Especially when it starts interfering.
     
  5. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    Please do! It was certainly meant to be. :)

    I couldn't agree more. We don't deserve to be a race if we refuse to co-exist with one another. Differences are not to be feared but embraced.

    HOW DARE YOU! *Raises fists.* :D

    I wanna kiss you for this. Just sayin'. :p
     
  6. Joline3

    Joline3 New Member

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    *covers face* well, um... sorry? xD :p
    I always wonder how the world and our civilization will look like in a 100 or 1000 years. In the context of this thread though, I wonder what kind of place will religion take in society in distant future...
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  7. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    It's a good question. I'm of the opinion that it probably won't die out because we humans seem to have an innate need to make sense of things, especially those things that cannot yet be quantified by science like god, life after death... that sort of thing. I can't imagine those things ever not being thought about.
     
  8. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Ridiculous.

    Science does so quantify our Universe in regards to God and an afterlife.

    There is no evidence that a God created the universe or us in it. Indeed, the overwhelming evidence shows that God is the creation of mankind.
     
  9. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    lol. Science is not a religion, Sparrow :p

    Anyway, quantum information theory might be considered somewhat religious when it comes to the constitution of the universe. I'd say there's no actual endpoint to the inclusion of religion in our world. It will stay, though, I suspect, more on a personal level, and less in public.
     
  10. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I'm not sure. There is proof that atheism is growing and pretty fast. I think more and more people are asking themselves the question if there really is a God, instead of just believing in it because someone told them there is. If you're a person of science then you have to acknowledge though that there is a chance that there is a God, after all nothing can be proven by a rate of 100 percent. So even if we could prove that there is no God, then there would always be a question above your head that says 'Are you sure?' And that is what science also strives on. Look, we knew mostly religious or people with a religious background (aka not religious, yet their parents for example were), were opposed to equal rights to females or people with another skin colour. Now they are a dying breed. And I strongly believe that the anti-gay are a dying breed for the same reasons people opposing equal rights to females are now only small in numbers. 400 years ago it was fine to stone a man who spoke blasphemy. Well... You get my point. Religion often adapts itself to science, not the other way. And I strongly think that everyone should question the existence of God and if people still believe he does, then good for them. Because in the end it's all in their right to believe.
     
  11. Heaven's Cloud

    Heaven's Cloud Active Member

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    I see a lot of proven truths in this thread, and I see a lot of unproven opinions. Not that the opinions can't be truth as well, I'm mainly talking about the stuff that can't be proven.
    Personally, I've never met god. Can't say one way or another whether he exists. I'll leave it at that and won't get into my own experiences.

    I will say that if people stop believing in god, they will decide to kill each other over some other issue, because some people hate what is different. I can't blame religion for making people crazy, anymore than
    I can blame guns for killing people. When I hear about tragedies in the news, there is always a man holding the gun. Or there is a man misleading people. Before guns existed, there was still torture and murder and war.
    I believe if you took god out of the equation, there would still be torture and murder and war, because greed, and hatred would persist. At no time will people be carbon copies of each other, so differences will persist.

    I'm pretty sure religions can co-exist though, so long as some sort of apocalypse/other event doesn't happen to prove one right over all others. People are learning to accept the differences of others all over the world. People of
    different religions are also learning to accept each other. I'm not saying this is true in all instances. I'm just saying that it can be done, and is being done. Just as people are accepting other differences that
    have nothing to do with religion.

    So long as no one religion experiences the be all end all of its doctrine, that will by default cancel out all other religious belief systems, sure, they'll co-exist. This includes science as well. Until science can, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
    prove that no god exists, then scientists in general will accept other people for being different, as they have been doing...nonviolently anyway ;)
     
  12. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I think there is still quite some tension between what science finds and what people experience on a day to day basis. To unify the self with the standing of science is an intellectual exercise, beyond all but a select few academics. Accepting, though, what science produces without understand what is going on second hand actually edges towards organised religion. But, coming back to my point, asking the questions of life, and filling in the answers science produces might be quite unsatisfactory and I believe that it will continue to do so. And more so when science progresses, removing itself further and further from every day life. As such, there is a place for religion in the world, as a placeholder for the great and difficult questions, and I have no problem with that.
     
  13. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I don't think it's only science that plays a factor though. Atheists didn't become atheists purely out of science and like I said the percentage of atheists is growing. I mean my family came from a religious background. Now we're all atheists and science with most did not play a part of it. Sometimes it's maybe just to look around, see how much misery there is in the world and wonder, 'If there is a God, would he really make the world suffer this much?'. I think that is a valid question, while I respect the fact that religious people believe the devil plays a larger part in our misery and that it also has to do with free will. Just naming these two cause those are the ones I mostly got as an answer to the question I asked earlier. But that is irrelevant. It just brings me back to how science is not always the reason or not the largest reason why atheism is growing. It also has to do with environment. People you associate with. A religious child that mostly associates with children with no belief, also might change their minds about religion. I guess it's maybe how I became an atheist, cause I do think I was religious to a point, or at least agnostic.
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I think you're correct in that environment and conditioning play a huge part in how and what an individual believes in... but that aside, I get tired of hearing how science hasn't dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't' so it's alright to hold out hope that there's some supernatural force at work, one that science can't account for. It's nonsense.

    Nothing in science is proven or disproven beyond a shadow of any possible doubt. In science, everything is provisional. Being provisional is not a weakness or a sign that a conclusion is weak. Being provisional is a smart, pragmatic tactic because we can never be sure what we'll come across when we round the next corner. This lack of absolute certainty is a window through which many religious theists try to slip their god, but that's not a valid move. This is sort of a bad "if this, then that" statement. If there is a gap in which science does not have a complete answer, or perhaps fails to have an answer at all then you shouldn't feel free filling that gap with God.
     
  15. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well, Sparrow I do agree with some you said, but the way you explain yourself could be more tactful imo. Besides 'Answers' is not the only reason a person believes in God. It could even just be to have a good shoulder to cry on. And I don't see a problem with that. And comparing God to an imaginary friend would be wrong, because imaginary friends are born purely from imagination or worse from mental issues. The idea of God or call it the realisation that God exists doesn't purely come out of nowhere. There is a large history behind it and I'm not just talking about the history or fiction if you prefer from the Bible. I'm talking about our history in general. The history of societies, kingdoms, empires of which religion was one of the pillars on which they stood. You can't just erase that and that history still plays a vital role in our societies today.
     
  16. Heaven's Cloud

    Heaven's Cloud Active Member

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    I have to wonder if science can't account for a god/higher life-form. Who can really confirm that?
    This type of reasoning seems more to me like the sort of excuse people have been using forever to explain stuff they don't understand.
    Does a higher life-form have to be supernatural, just because it can do things we can't, or is it possible that such a thing can actually be completely explained by science?

    We have to remember that many of the dominant religions in the world began thousands of years ago. People more readily believed in hocus pocus, and science hardly had any influence.
    Today, people are wiser, but it surprises me how often they still look at the concept of god as something that can't be explained by science.
     
  17. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I think it's a far stretch to think of a creature that then would be evolved way more than us, for reasons unknown as the prime reason to evolve is to survive. A creature similar to God seems an unnecessary evolution to any creature that is known to us. Still you can't exclude the thought that in the universe somewhere such a creature did evolve, how unimaginable it may be... And it would take science also an unimaginable amount of time to explain as you would first have to find some hint, clue that such a creature would even exist. And that itself would have to be uncovered by science, not because religion says that there are creatures such as deities.
     
  18. Joline3

    Joline3 New Member

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    I see I missed quite a bit of the discussion... I am not sure if anyone mentioned culture. I guess most of the posts were generalized (I don't mean it in a bad way). In my opinion everyone can be right about what they said, because ultimately we don't know what the future will bring. There is a study shown that in 50 years 90% of people in Czech Republic will become atheist, an example of what Anakin mentioned. However, I don't think that would happen in a 100 years in Israel for example. I think it depends on the different ways of thinking that people are thought in different cultures and societies. Yet I don't think culture is the only factor, because a lot could play a role in religion dissapearing or persisting, like economy, propaganda, educational system, etc. In the end this post looks like one huge doubt about everything xD
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  19. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    the dream place for me than is Checz Republic in 50 years....
     
  20. Heaven's Cloud

    Heaven's Cloud Active Member

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    I understand what you're saying. I was approaching my last comment from a standpoint, that when most of the world's holy writings were penned, people had next to no knowledge about the universe, or science at all. If I went back in time, knowing the things I know today, I could perhaps be considered a god. Man has gone to the moon, created the bomb, flown in vehicles, and made so many other achievements that would have been considered miraculous thousands of years ago. It's very possible that whatever "supernatural" occurrences there were taking place back then, were not actually so impressively achieved as they appeared to those people. Perhaps there were no real miracles going on in the bible. Perhaps there was just a complex application of science that simulated a miracle, making whatever was doing it appear to be unreachable by human intellect to comprehend. Perhaps, whatever this god may have been, it was not all THAT much more evolved than we are today. Humans haven't evolved in a very long time, but they have made technological advances all through their existence. It could very well be the gods of all these holy writings are an advanced race. All this is a stretch, but for many people, believing in god at all is a stretch, so I consider it a valid statement in this conversation ;)

    I'm not saying any of this to offend anyone who believes a certain way. But to believe 100% that there is a being who actually is "ALL POWERFUL", I would have to take the word of people who lacked access to thousands of years of knowledge that I do have access to. Not only that, but I'd also have to believe that the translations of their words have been unaltered, and their meanings conveyed exactly as they were meant to be. I'd also have to accept that they were not in some way deceived by someone or something that just had more knowledge of the way the universe works than they do.