Religions, Beliefs, and Spirtuality

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Alchemist, May 9, 2006.

  1. Moonside

    Moonside Basking in Moonshine

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Atheism is my general response to the God question, after becoming aware of it's true definition as a lack of theism, rather than a belief that God or God(s) cannot exist. With this came the acceptance of seperating the logical from the emotional questions. Fatih in God is abundantly seperate from the question of likelihood regarding a deity's existence. The former is an assertion based upon emotive leanings, the latter is completely devoid of emotional considerations when being addressed. Personally, I regard the existence of God unlikely in the extreme, but not impossible. 99.9% recurring certainty of non-existance has become my finalised stance.

    Regarding questions of spirituality or general beliefs, both are forming and being crushed simultaneously, as they are dependant on social interaction and believing in the honesty and value of others. Generally I believe that the world is beautiful; in a somewhat naturalistic pantheist sense, and I don't hold towards logical, but pessimistic concepts like solipsism, because they are ultimately unfufilling. Most importantly, though, I value respect; it's up there alongside love. The reason is simple - I want to get along with people, and not hurt them, because being hurt feels bad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
  2. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    I don't know if somebody has pointed this out before but I think you misunderstand atheism - I'm lead to belief that atheism purely and simply means the disbelief in God.
    I am an atheist but I am not without beliefs, or faith.

    I like to think of myself as a Gnostic, if I call what my faith under any religion's names.
    I have my own personal beliefs about unconditional and reserved loyalty, the power of the mind, and that there is magic in the world, a greater plane of existence - please nobody associate this with Christian or any earthly versions of heaven et cetera - I'm talking a mathematical, scientific dimensional plane where we cease to be flesh and we continue to exist as energy.

    That's my belief :D or beliefs.

    Take from it what you will and feel free to ask questions :D I'm going to do some more browsing on this thread I'm interested in what everyone has to say :)
     
  3. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Knowledge is power, I believe this too :) That's why I love the Sith mantra. The Sith mantra, though invented by somebody [probably george lucas or some comic designer whatever] holds deep meaning for me.

    It's so interesting to see and learn about everyone's beliefs.

    I, myself can personally relate to DC's belief - and Padmé's intrigued me, I think that you seem like a serene person who, to me, does sound very much how I imagine Padmé her fictional self would believe.
     
  4. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Sorry to comment again I'm not spamming I just keep noticing different things I'd like to comment on!

    Is that fair, Moonside, to claim that it's unfulfilling? I'll bet there are people ready to disagree. Perhaps if you had said 'unfulfilling in my point of view/experience' that would have been better,
    because I don't think that solipsism is a pessimistic view - is it fair to say to a Christian who believes that if they don't do right by the Bible and by God they'll endure everlasting punishment is pessimistic? That judgement day is coming and they'll all be stripped bare [in terms of hteir soul] before God, is pessimistic? I find it to be a bit fatalistic to be honest, but that's purely my opinion.

    I find that believing in solipsism is just the same as believing in anything else, and it is down to the person believing in it if it's pessimistic or not.

    [not trying to argue! let me stress that. xD]
     
  5. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    What is astaru?

    [sorry to comment again! just..interested!!]
     
  6. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    perhaps the original meaning was, unfulfilling to the poster who has tried it and found it unfulfilling. *sideways smile with raised eyebrows* (<- no emote for this! >_< y not?!)
     
  7. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    I think that was the intention, but I'm a bit pedantic and I think it would have been, perhaps for lack of a better way to express it, fairer to specify.
    I don't like to consider the thought that somebody's beliefs were considered generally unfulfilling. It seemed unfair :)
     
  8. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    8,797
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    A Pirate city in international waters
    Ratings:
    +192 / 0 / -0
    For future reference, Jing, instead of posting one new post after the other you should use the edit button to add to one post. ;)
     
  9. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    A bit of semantics;

    I am led to believe you that you don't believe in [a] God and that you are areligious - but do believe you have Knowledge about the mystic side of faith?

    Homer (and I don't mean Iliad's) once implied that facts are useless because just about anything can be proven with them - and I tend to agree. How does that equate to your Gnosis?
     
  10. Azazael

    Azazael New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I'm an atheist. I doubt that any deities exist, and mostly I hope they don't - too many die in religions name for me to respect any God, Goddess, or asexual deity that allowed it to happen - but there's still that sliver of hope, that tiny candle flame, that wants something further - a reason to live, a place in death, someone who cares, the chance at the fantastical. Please don't think I mean any offense; I generally see religion and such as the denial of reality, and that is one of the cardinal sins in my opinion (I couldn't think of nonreligious terminology <.<)
     
  11. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    6,493
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bittersweet Hell
    Ratings:
    +231 / 0 / -0
    Too many stupid humans kill other humans in the name of something - aka to have an excuse of doing so - and that is proof enough that there is no God?
    Oh god, well then I will kill a cat in the name of science. Will it prove that science is nonexistant?! Guess not.

    ;)
    Don't take me too serious, but we've discussed about the Got/no God question since the beginning of this forum and the only way we can face it anymore is with humor, since the same arguments keep popping up the whole time.
    We (the pros and cons) came to the conclusion that what humans do, and no matter in whose name they do it, has nothing to do with there being a God or not.
    And why we came to that conclusion can be read in the thread: "God". Starting page 1.

    Other than that, I totally respect your atheistic view of the world. Welcome to the forums ;)
     
  12. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Azores, Portugal
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    No one can prove that God doesn't exist. But no one can prove he exists either. But science DOES exist. It's a given.

    And things aren't that simple, Running Wolf.
     
  13. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    6,493
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bittersweet Hell
    Ratings:
    +231 / 0 / -0
    simple like what? What was simple in my post?
    I just said that human actions are no proof that God doesn't exist. That's all I said with a lot more words.
    Plus I never said science doesn't exist. Evolution for example does pretty clearly "exist" - in my oppinion anyways.
     
  14. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Science does exsist, I agree. But it's somewhat tricky to only go on science alone.

    You see, science is about observation. And, in itself, that is a very good idea. However, humans have the uncanny drive to interpret the observations. In that sense, science and interpretation go hand in hand, just like religion and interpretation do.
     
  15. Azazael

    Azazael New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    That's not quite what I wrote. I don't see it as proof there is or is not a God. I said that I wouldn't respect a God that allowed that to occur in their name.
     
  16. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    This doesn't infringe on the souvereignty of a diety, Azazael.

    Besides, it is pretty hard to obtain a moral high ground on a being that is supposed to be superior to humanity in every sense.
     
  17. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Azores, Portugal
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    Of course one can't live on science alone. I, for one, believe that science will never answer all our answers, ans will likely never answer the most important answers. The ones that can't be answered. The ones we must answer for ourselves. I don't believe, however, that religion is the answer to that need. Religions are far too dangerous, not to mention that they limit us greatly.
     
  18. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    You assume religion is dangerous. Should I assume from this that you don't trust yourself with religion?

    The last remark is somewhat notable; "Religion (...) limits us greatly". I think that this argument is void in a discussion about religion. Only an atheist can conclude this, as, I believe, the limitations of religion is not so much a choice, as it is a consequence to religious people.

    As you conclude, science can't be the answer to the important and ultimate questions. One way or another, however, I that philosophy will come in to play there. And I sincerely wonder whether philosophy as a whole is less dangerous than religion...
     
  19. Azazael

    Azazael New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I never said that it was a reason deities didn't exist. I said that I hoped they didn't because of that.
     
  20. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    gods are placed within the realm of the "super-natural" which by definition means unobservable and untestable by science, right? but it also means you can't say whether or not it exists based on whether or not you can touch, see, etc it, i think..

    can science find out how far the universe goes? no, only so far as it can see... but does that mean there isn't more than what we can observe at the time? of course not..

    likewise, we're nowhere near able to drill down and actually test what's at the center of the sun. we've got great guesses, but nothing solid. Does that mean the center of the sun doesn't exist? no, just that we can't see, feel, smell, taste or otherwise observe the center of teh sun at the time.

    and what is morality? by what is morality defined? what fundamental reference point do we use for determining what is "right" and what is "wrong"? because if we should judge a deity by our own standards, that is bringing the deity down to the level of human understanding. which, regardless of religion, simply does not give any justice to the supernatural.

    so yeah.....